Hi supergirl,

my husband has the same working hrs as yours and we hardly see him during the week. Either I'm in bed or fall asleep in front of the tv by the time he gets home or he is away. It's frustrating but we just have to put up with It.

To answer your qs:

- House maintenance (renovations, general maintenance). I'm rubbish at this. If it's small jobs my husband might do it at the the weekend otherwise we get a handyman to help out
- kids; -I'm 24/7 work around the clock for my son
- Family time; -weekend breakfast and lunch. My husband tends to have to log in and work during the weekend. He tries to keep Saturday free for us and Sunday when he does log in, we just hang around the house or hang around near his workplace so he can see and spend a glimpse of us
- Couple time; -we try date night 1x a month and get babysitter in. Apart from that it's non existence. (This is something we really struggle and need to work on)
- House chores; -between me and the cleaner
- Paperworks, admin, etc; -I deal with it unless it's something complicated like dealing with solicitors etc then I ask him to help out
- Money - funny enough he checks all my expenditure. He only raises his voice when he sees McDonalds on the bank statement. We openly talk about it and can see each other expenditure, nothing extravagant.
- Expectations of both sides - I just expect him to be a dad and spend time with us at the weekend. He expect the house to look like a showroom (which I must admit I'm struggling)
- And what "selfish" spend do you have on yourself if you are "at home" -Driving lesson&pilates classes (1-2hr at the weekend when the boys are bonding). I work 2x Pw and freelance which i see it as a "selfish" act as it doesn't contribute anything to us. Just a little pocket money for me so I can drop my kid at nursery while I sip on a hot beverage. I would love to have more "me" time like going to get mani / hair done / going shopping/ see my friends (most of them are childless) but this feel like a real luxury as I would need to find someone to look after our son.

Am skimreading all these posts as it is definitely the ongoing source of stress in our marriage - the Guardian article/letter made me cry slightly especially as clearly they are NOT communicating... we are constantly trying different ways to juggle and as my kids are now older I am getting better at getting them to pitch in during that post school time when I am trying to get supper ready (and fresh off meetings or sometimes office work) so that am not frazzled housewife when hubby gets in from his long day in the corporate world. Definitely identify on the thinking burden though - the other day hubby was working from home and as i got off the tube to pick up kids heavens opened again so i called to ask if he could come and get us and he was unsure of what time school finished (this is 7 years into school and oldest about to go to secondary) which made me scream with frustation! Will go back online later at home with a glass of wine and reread in more detail ALL the contributions and see what nuggets of wisdom I can use!

BFW, so very true. Same here - my kids are pre-schoolers but I am in exactly the same boat.
Seb, your posts made me smile. You sound like a cool dad.

I could have written your post astro! (Except I'm now back at work from maternity leave and STILL doing all the online chores in my "spare" time while he browses wine websites...grrr)

Yes! It is all about the 'thinking'. My husband is great at chipping in but I have to ask or remind him and I feel like I'm nagging and I hate being a 'naggy wife'. Or I have to think of things to do on the weekend and work out the schedule (we still are working around kids naps etc as have two under the age of 3). I'd love it if he came home on a Friday and said 'Okay, we really need to get x, y and z done around the house this weekend.' rather than me being the fun police bringing it up. Or I'd love it if he said 'I saw this great family day thing at xxx this Saturday and I was thinking we could take the kids in the morning'. He is a guy with a huge amount of drive and initiative when it comes to work, holidays etc - where has it all gone on the weekend?

The other things I notice is that in the evening when we are relaxing, watching tv etc... he'll be online reading the news or looking up something personal that he's interested in. Instead I'll be catching up on online chores which I don't get a chance to do during the day (food shop, kids clothes order, researching how to get the garden done etc). I'm on mat leave at the moment so I get coffee time during the day and it is okay, but when I go back to work full-time I find that part really hard.

In answer to super girl's original question, for us (whether I'm working full-time or not): he does the household paperwork, bills, car etc. I do all the household chores in terms of food shopping, furniture, kids clothes, washing etc, and cooking during the week as he just isn't home early enough. He's great at chipping in and will unload the dishwasher or washing machine without me asking. And he's fine with us outsourcing as much as we can but doesn't appreciate how hard that is to organise sometimes!

OK am going to get shot down for this but.... My husband has a very demanding job - travels works long hours etc. So 4 years ago I decided to take a slightly "easier" career path and now work 4 days a week and I can pretty much leave the office at 5.30 every night. As a result I do everything in our household. And I mean EVERYTHING ! My husband occasionally puts the rubbish out

But do you know what? I really don't mind one tiny bit. He doesn't get home until 10pm some nights and looks exhausted and I know that if he could he would help more. And on the occasional time when I am travelling with work he takes over. I have my one day off work now and when the kids are at school I get a whole day to do things for myself ... gym, seeing friends, getting the house sorted.

One of the posters made a good point of asking your kids ages. When my kids were younger I have to admit that it was all a bit more challenging and I would have loved for him to help me more ! But now they are all at school (all primary school) life has got so much easier !

Anyway ... that's just my thoughts !

I am extremely lucky in that my partner and I both work part-time. We have a 3 year old and have always divided everything in terms of child-care. We spend an equal amount of time with my son and we both work c3 days per week.
I have to say that I find the days with my son a lot more exhausting than my working days. The energy required to look after young children emotionally and physically is very challenging.
We also split household chores etc. We have a cleaner, my partner does all the food shopping - he takes our son out every Monday to do the food shopping and they've done this together since he was a baby. He also organises all the bills etc. I then organise other household things like packing when we go away, clothes and washing etc and I do most of the extra cleaning and tidying round the house. We both cook the same amount.
In general it balances out however it doesn't stop us from rowing fairly often about who does what and one having more space than the other.
I actually think it pays to be less clinical about this and more go with the flow - I think the more give and take there is the more benefits you will see in the long run. The more rigid we have become in allocating time the less it works so I say this from experience - although it's not easy. The more giving and thoughtful we are with each other around this - the better it is. It's easy to say that one role is harder than the other unless you actually try one out for a long period of time (working a lot in office/or being stay at home carer). They are all tough in different ways, and of course sometimes the grass always seems greener somewhere else.
I don't think there's any definitive answer except to find something that works for you and not to dwell too much on everything being equal as that is where the resentment will start to build.

My best friend experienced a retrenchment in his city career at the same time as the family nanny left; his wife worked full time. Finding it difficult to source a full time replacement job, he and his wife decided that this might be the time for him to have a spell looking after the children (primary school age).

He eventually "invented" a part time income producing role which fitted around his new childcare duties. Over time, this new "job" had him working in the evenings as well and he became quite busy with it.

He took a long time to adjust to childcare, child speak, hanging around at the school gates for pick up chatting to mums he seemed to have little in common with and wearing more and more casual clothes instead of the sharp suits he used to wear to work. I know he missed the intellectual stimulation of being around intelligent adults more than anything (no slight intended on the intellectual capacity of mums, but let's just say that school gate conversation tends towards the basics), not to mention the higher income he had enjoyed. He also experienced a massive loss of self esteem.

But he still got the washing done, did most of the domestic work (they didn't re-employ a nanny and had no cleaner), did the traditionally male-centric odd job duties, cooked the children's breakfasts and supper etc. Whilst his income was only half his wife's (it used to be a lot more than his wife's when he was in the city), he still made a vital contribution to shared expenses and also made sure that whenever they needed new big-ticket electrical appliances etc, he paid for them; he also bought all the booze, which may sound a trifle but when you don't go out much, you want to be able to eat and drink well at home.

His wife still managed to "have a go" at him for all the apparent free time he had during the day when the children were at school. I suppose she was ignorant of the work he had to do to get the business which provided his income, not to mention blind to the fact that the rooms of the house they lived in were normally clean, the children fed and educated, the car serviced etc.

Sometimes, couples just need to communicate more. Sit down, explain what they have each individually been through and what it feels like. Explain where they feel under appreciated, but also have the courage and honesty to admit when they know they have been lax, or underperformed or downright lied. Honesty is hard and takes time, but the alternative is often plastering on layers and layers of half-truths and - like all bad plastering jobs - eventually the whole thing falls apart with unpleasant consequences.

Great article and I couldn't agree more!

I saw this is today's Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... f-to-death

I am NOT saying that this is the tone of this thread, but it is interesting colour to the whole work/life/man/woman balance.

I have a couple of friends who are getting increasingly stressed that their Nappy Valley wives are refusing to get jobs when their children are of secondary school age and more. I truly believe it's not healthy for anyone to "do nothing" when the full-on responsibilities of childcare start to ebb away.

I do agree that if no one did it, chaos would ensue, but then order would prevail eventually but either one party or the other - or both need to do it. in my experience it is usually the mum who does the thinking behind the family logistics, albeit parts may be delegated to dad. This is often the mother because they stay at home. So take your cleaning e.g - of course the doing (paying) takes 2 minutes however the thinking/logistics can take longer. Does your wife tell you to cancel the dd when she doesn't turn up/swops days/ goes on holiday/does an hour less - or is it just easier for your wife to remember each week to pay the cleaner who she sees and talks to each week?! I think it's great seb that you do so much for your wife and family. I wish my husband would/could do more of the "thinking" side of family life too but sometimes it just doesn't work as well. I do also endorse the children doing as much as possible for themselves however this is age specific. It's an interesting debate for sure but looking after small kids plus trying juggling lots of household admin is exhausting.

Ok so sticking my head above the parapet...

quite frankly nothing would get done if I didn't do it.. I am by no means a micro manager or perfectionist, I am talking the basics, no childrens birthday parties, no presents, no holidays, no clean clothes, no food, no homework done, no play dates, no activities, clubs, paying the nanny/cleaner, remembering the sports kit etc. I not a super mum but i do enough to get by - but even that takes a significant effort in addition to doing my City Job

I REALLY think the difference comes down to approach.

About half of those things listed are things that I do. But they're done the way I want to do them, not the way my wife would do them.

e.g. paying the cleaner and nanny. I used to do these and it took about three seconds (details set up in banking app, reminder in my diary, I don't think it took less than a minute but it certainly was done in two.

Sports kit: laminate list of classes and what is needed on the fridge. Explained to the kids that they needed to shout if they didn't have it sorted and then they only forgot their kit once.

DId they forget it? Yes. Once. But they never forgot it again. My wife wanted to BIKE the sports kit to them at school and we had an argument. But in the end I got my way and the kids do it.

I honestly honestly believe that all of us are loving, caring, capable parents and if left to our own devices it works. It's when we're not sure what is meant to happen that chaos ensues!

Seb - and your views on the thinking?

. Homeworks will still have to be done at some point and i believe that you shouldnt wait until 5pm on Sunday
2. They still need to go to bed at a reasonable time because week ends are only 2 days and they need rest from a busy week.
I have let go of all the other stuffs.

hahahah

loving this too!

I think the fundamental difference is that my partner wants me to be "her" in terms of childcare. Her choices for clubs//classes, her playdates, her way of running the house etc etc. She doesn't actually delegate, she sets precise instructions which I have failed if I haven't followed to the letter.

As we all know from work, that's not sharing or delegating responsibility it's micromanagement nightmare!

e.g. Her (over weekend): I can't believe you didn't take the kids to ToddleDrums!

Me: we were having too much fun on our bikes so stayed out

Her: but he/she needs to go to ToddleDrums! They love it

Me: Well they love cycling

Her: you're useless you can't even get them to a class on time

Now that is a sort-of conversation we had last time. Her view is I've failed, my view is that I chose an alternative path. Not wrong but different.

I KNOW that she'll tell her friends "I can't believe how useless he is he couldn't even get them to ToddleDrums" and I'm telling my friends (to murmurs of agreement in the pub) "why are women so uptight about ToddleDrums we were having fun!"

As far as housework is concerned men and women approach things differently.

Again, not wrong, but different.

I earn a lot of money and so can afford to outsource. I suspect most people on NappyValleyNet are the same. So after the last weekend I ordered an extra cleaner to come in and asked her to bag up everything which was dirty.

I took it to the launderette and paid them to wash and iron.

When I got home I then had the cleaner put it all back in the drawers.

My wife "my husband is so useless he has to go to the launderette to do washing"

Me in the pub "I'M NOT USELESS IT WORKS AND I CAN AFFORD IT A LAUNDERETTE"

But it's great we are discussing it!

Also i would like to add about the "thinking".

Yes yes yes. This by far the hardest. That and sleep deprivation when you have babies.

However amazing my husband can be he will NEVER think ahead when it comes to his children. He can project work, finances, mortgage, himself, his family in the grand scheme of things but he cannot to the same about his children.
If kids are having an activity outdoor you need to dress properly and appropriately. I have a vivid memory of my youngest going to a huge treasure hunt in sandals, fluffly dress, etc because "she chose to dress herself like that so i didnt say anything". Guess what it rains!

And he has NEVER packed more than 1 suitcase.

Thats the bit I would like to share.

Any men with ideas as to why?