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Re: Jane Ellison is out

by juliantenniscoach » Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:47 pm

Yes I agree. The Leave campaign was framed around slogans of "getting control of our borders back" - Fact. non-EU immigration was wholly under the control of the UK Parliament and Home Secretary and consistently rose throughout the previous two Parliaments despite the manifesto promise of reducing to "10's of thousands".

I've just chosen the most obvious and inflammatory slogan, but there were a select few, repeated like a quasi religious mantra, without any substance. However the Remain Campaign failed miserably in selling the upside (of which there are many) of being an active participant of the EU. They (Remain) fell into the trap of 'Project Fear'. May and Corbyn were equally hopeless and one can reasonably suspect they had another agenda. That 2% swing turned Cameron from an all time conquering hero into the architect of confusion.

Oh well, spilt milk etc.

Re: Jane Ellison is out

by papinian » Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:52 am

Yellowtail wrote:How the NI border never came up and how the difference between EU, Singe Market and Customs union was never explained is as equally damming for remain campaign as the lies that told by the leave one reflects upon them.
The NI border was discussed right throughout the referendum campaign. Equally, the difference between the single market and the customs union was explained many time. Unfortunately, however, the vast majority of English people don't read broadsheet newspapers and, in my experience, a very large number of them don't even know the difference between Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and their respective relationships with Britain. I don't think that you can blame the remain campaign for the low education of English people or that 1/5 of English people are functionally illiterate.

Re: Jane Ellison is out

by Yellowtail » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:46 pm

No one knows what the Government or Opposition wants from Brexit at this point, they themselves do not even know. Its why the whole thing is a total and utter shambles. No one who voted Leave had a clue what they were voting for, no one who voted remain could fully articulate why. How the NI border never came up and how the difference between EU, Singe Market and Customs union was never explained is as equally damming for remain campaign as the lies that told by the leave one reflects upon them.

Re: Jane Ellison is out

by juliantenniscoach » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:49 pm

Well one thing's for sure. If you voted Labour thinking they were in favour of a 'soft Brexit', you've just had a rude awakening. Corbyn has always been a Brexiteer, but he's played that very close to his chest. His sacking of the three front benchers is dressed up as a discipline measure but no. All we've had from Corbyn and the Shadow Foreign Secretary is "we want a Brexit that is best for jobs". No detail, no plan, no specific goal setting. It's as stale and useless as the infamous "strong and stable". Only the Lib-Dems had a specific policy for a 'soft Brexit' and representation of the rights of the EU citizens here and the Remain constituency.

Re: Jane Ellison is out

by papinian » Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:32 pm

Denwand wrote:The Labour MPs knew full well the amendment would fail if they failed to vote, which would support the government (and Corbyn's) position...so they voted with the government with their feet!
The Labour MPs knew that the amendment would fail even if they ALL voted in favour of it... You're suggesting that Labour could have got this amendment passed if it had united in favour of it, when the numbers show that's not the case.
Denwand wrote:Don't try and cover your embarrassment that your vaunted Labour replacement of Ellison ended up being a turncoat
You won't find a single example of me supporting Marsha de Cordova. I think she's a complete waste-of-space. Please stop attributing opinions to me that I don't hold. It's stupid and tiresome.

Re: Jane Ellison is out

by Denwand » Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:24 pm

Par for the course I'm afraid.
papinian wrote: Saying that MPs who abstained on an amendment voted against is a lie. Just as saying that those who didn't vote at the last general election voted against Conservatives/Labour is a lie. You got caught out lying - not for the first time. Own it.
A technicality pappy...

The Labour MPs knew full well the amendment would fail if they failed to vote, which would support the government (and Corbyn's) position...so they voted with the government with their feet!

Don't try and cover your embarrassment that your vaunted Labour replacement of Ellison ended up being a turncoat (what a surprise) by bandying accusations of people on this forum of being "liars" and being "thick" please....getting a bit tiring! :lol:

Re: Jane Ellison is out

by cuqui03 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:03 pm

papinian wrote:
cuqui03 wrote:Papinian honestly, just a bit of a shame how you treat other people and other's opinions.
There's not an opinion involved here. Denwand posted a lie about two local Labour MPs. I pointed it out.

We know from your other posts that you're a Conservative supporter, so not surprised to see you joining in in attempting to defend lies being told about local Labour MPs.
Calling people things like "thick" does not sound right that's all, and the implied aggression in your responses neither and this is my opinion not a fact. This is besides political support.

Re: Jane Ellison is out

by CommonGuy » Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:27 pm

Looking again I can't see Dr Rosena Allin-Khan on the list of those MPs that supported the amendment. I cannot find a list of those who definitely abstained so perhaps papinian has an inside line?
In my mind I cannot see how you can canvass on a Remain ticket and then either vote against the amendment or abstain.

Re: Jane Ellison is out

by Denwand » Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:08 pm

papinian wrote:
Denwand wrote:
papinian wrote:Oh pappy - you're failing - by not voting for the amendment they are supporting the government position.

Any "thick" person can see that!

Any more slander / libel you'd like to throw? :shock: :lol:
Denwand. In your original post you didn't write "support the government position". You wrote "voted with Government against Chuka Umunna’s amendment". That's a lie. Anyone with a brain knows that one can vote for something, against something or abstain and abstention is not the same as voting against.

Saying that MPs who abstained on an amendment voted against is a lie. Just as saying that those who didn't vote at the last general election voted against Conservatives/Labour is a lie. You got caught out lying - not for the first time. Own it.

Re: Jane Ellison is out

by Denwand » Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:05 pm

CommonGuy wrote:From my reading of a list on the Guardian website Tooting's MP voted for the amendment but no sign of the Battersea MP. This is the woman who was putting flyers through doors professing to be the MP for the Remain voters but maybe it was she who is lying?
I don't know Commonguy, I would have thought Rosena Allin-Khan (Tooting) would have voted for it but I have double checked the list and she's not on there???

Good point about the Battersea MP Marsha de Cordova. She WAS desperately trying to appeal to Remainers (and fooled a few posters on here) but despite that (and obviously toeing the Corbyn line ) she has let them all down!

Re: Jane Ellison is out

by papinian » Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:00 pm

Denwand wrote:
papinian wrote:Oh pappy - you're failing - by not voting for the amendment they are supporting the government position.

Any "thick" person can see that!

Any more slander / libel you'd like to throw? :shock: :lol:
Denwand. In your original post you didn't write "support the government position". You wrote "voted with Government against Chuka Umunna’s amendment". That's a lie. Anyone with a brain knows that one can vote for something, against something or abstain and abstention is not the same as voting against.

Saying that MPs who abstained on an amendment voted against is a lie. Just as saying that those who didn't vote at the last general election voted against Conservatives/Labour is a lie. You got caught out lying - not for the first time. Own it.

Re: Jane Ellison is out

by Denwand » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:56 am

papinian wrote: There's not an opinion involved here. Denwand posted a lie about two local MPs. I called him/her out on it. Honestly, what do you expect me to do? Shut up and say nothing?
Oh pappy - you're failing - by not voting for the amendment they are supporting the government position.

Any "thick" person can see that!

Any more slander / libel you'd like to throw? :shock: :lol:

Re: Jane Ellison is out

by CommonGuy » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:54 am

From my reading of a list on the Guardian website Tooting's MP voted for the amendment but no sign of the Battersea MP. This is the woman who was putting flyers through doors professing to be the MP for the Remain voters but maybe it was she who is lying?

Re: Jane Ellison is out

by papinian » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:51 am

cuqui03 wrote:Papinian honestly, just a bit of a shame how you treat other people and other's opinions.
There's not an opinion involved here. Denwand posted a lie about two local Labour MPs. I pointed it out.

We know from your other posts that you're a Conservative supporter, so not surprised to see you joining in in attempting to defend lies being told about local Labour MPs.

Re: Jane Ellison is out

by cuqui03 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:49 am

Papinian honestly, just a bit of a shame how you treat other people and other's opinions.

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