Yeah but Cyclists

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dudette wrote:
> I think the OP hit the nail on the head when s/he said that the typical cyclist is white, male and middle aged. If we could reclaim the cycling lanes from the menace of MAMILs

Apparently MAMIL has it's female equivalent: FUTIL. (Fat ugly trout in leggings)

Dudette- I think that's an excellent article. Just as I wouldn't expect cyclists to block a road by cycling down the middle, as a pedestrian, I wouldn't step out and cross a road wherever I want to just because the new Highway code gives me priority.

I was horrified to read on this site about the pedestrian seriously injured by a cyclist.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-cycling-habit-that-drivers-hate-the-most

This is a really interesting article - written by a cyclist. Worth a read.

SW11_Cycle - I wonder if you watched Countryfile on the BBC last evening?  If not, it's on the iPlayer.  There was a long segment (with statistics) on how much safer cycling in the city is compared with in the country, and how the countryside should be prioritised for safety measures.  Oh, and by the way, cycle deaths were well down in 2021 - the figures have just been released.

SW11_Cycle wrote: ↑Thu May 19, 2022 12:47 pm The elderly and infirm have been using electric mobility scooters for years as they do give them a new lease of life.

And you don't work up a sweat.

I prefer to cycle on a normal road bike as it's how I get my exercise but if you don't want to work up a sweat then electric bikes are quicker and safer and cheaper than any car in a city.

The word 'infirm' to describe disabled people is considered ableist these days and is patronising. The bike lobby have a blind spot when it comes to disabled people and see the world through their own myopic lens. Lucky are the people who can use electric bikes and mobility scooters, a lot of disabled people can't and need to drive. I used to cycle but the bike good car bad attitude just alienates many people who have legitimate reasons for driving.

Also cargo bikes- try putting (my) autistic twins  or a few very lively young children into one and see what happens- a ludicrous idea

The whole attitude here reeks of elitism. You appear to be passionate about enforcing your own right to go first when passing a car at all times. I suggest you look around at people who have genuine problems  - there are a lot out there - (clue not the bike lobby) and see if you can help them instead?

SW11_Cycle - you seem to pluck statistics / assumptions out of thin air.  Between 2004 and 2020 total cycling fatalities increased from 134 to 141, many of them not involving cars.  Over that time pedal cycle kilometres increased from 4.12bn to 8.09bn.  If 4.12bn km was a low base, then what would you have considered a high base?

"SW11_Cycle - really, can't you figure it out? Well, let me try to help (*sighs*)."

What a strange passive aggressive style you have there but never mind, I'll respond.

"You seem to have an obsession about how dangerous cycling is, but the official stastics show it is getting much safer. Doesn't that cheer you up (and yes, I do know that one death is one death to many etc)?"

Cycling is getting safer but it is still needlessly dangerous. Motorists need to be better. The government agrees, hence the new laws in January, and they will, over time, make a difference. I'm less bothered about rates of change if it's from a low base.

To mirror back your comment, let me try to help (*sighs*).

The death rates from operations in the 1920s were much better than those in the 1700s. But that was from a pretty low base. No one would hark back to the good old days of the 1920s surgery-wise today. As in no-one will hark back to the cyclists hundreds of deaths/serious injuries in our capital in 50 years time when technology has eliminated almost all human error in car driving.

SW11_Cycle - really, can't you figure it out?  Well, let me try to help (*sighs*).

You seem to have an obsession about how dangerous cycling is, but the official stastics show it is getting much safer.  Doesn't that cheer you up (and yes, I do know that one death is one death too many etc)?

And what on earth are you talking about when you say "The bigger issue is that people, on the whole, hate change ..."?  By general consent the pace of change in the last 25 years has been faster than at any time in the whole of human history, and people lap it up - people hate change?  So why for example is the uptake of EVs rocketing?  How on earth did Facebook replace leaning over the fence and chatting to neighbours?  Have you noticed the growth in veganism?

Chorister "I'm actually surprised you haven't responded" I wasn't aware there was something you wanted me to respond to.

Let me know what it is and I will.

SW11_Cycle - I know facts can be confusing, but do stop worrying - as I posted above, cycling in cities is getting much safer; see the statistics (as you seem to like statistics), so you should try to be much more positive.  I'm actually surprised you haven't responded - and I note that you never provide sources for your statistics.

In response to your statement "It’s not about who killed more it’s about having common courtesy for rules -every day"...I have to say I respectfully disagree.

For me, minimising road deaths is a priority. I would rather live in a safer world that prioritises a reduction of catastrophic injuries and deaths rather than one that doesn't care but I can't pretend to understand everybody.

But there is a factual inaccuracy in your post: car drivers DO break more rules than cyclists. That's a fact. There are multiple studies that highlight this but if you're in any doubt just stand on Bolingbroke Grove and watch the cars, it's a 20mph motorised limit and almost none of them will travel under 20mph. Every single one is a rule breaker and seeing as excess speed kills more than pedal bikes my anger is directed there.

But as you've already stated "it's not about who killed more" so I can understand why you're relaxed about this.

The bigger issue is that people, on the whole, hate change and we now live in a world where we're having change forced upon us. Be that climate change, inflation, politics etc etc and a decline in a car use is one aspect that we just have to face.

I picture you as someone who, if born a hundred years earlier would be standing on Northcote Road shouting "but I want to keep my horse" and that's your right, just as it's mine to hold different views.

I don’t have a car . My viewpoint is from a pedestrian . I am sick and tired of cyclists on pavements , running red lights and on non cycle lanes . It’s not about who killed more it’s about having common courtesy for rules -every day when I walk I see at least a handful of cyclists breaking them, consistently . When you ask them to get off the pavement as walking large dogs is difficult enough they spit and swear at you . This is a city , there will be cars . It is not the velodrome.
Even if I could photograph these transgressions there is no way to identify them . Also travelling in a cab a few days ago , a cyclist ran into it and scratched the paint work badly . The cab stopped but the cyclist said he wasn’t insured . Caused thousands of pounds worth of damage .

When cyclists pay road tax, have identifiable plates and are insured then you might have more of a say.

The roads were built for motors vehicles initially anyway , it’s not about telling cyclists how to behave. Roads have been adapted massively recently to allow for cyclists, yet you are still complaining.

Finally, to allow cyclists powers to report drivers but not vice versa is not very fair.

Cyclist seem to do what they like, as mentioned already. Jumping lights etc and are doing it because they can .

Happy to answer...

1) where do you expect people to store these cargo bikes?

On the road. We store millions of cars on the road and the cars would make way for the cargo bikes. Good locks etc mean they don't get stolen

2) do you suggest families get two of these cargo bikes then ?

If a family has enough money for one small family car they could afford two cargo bikes so they could easily have as many as they need. Running costs are a fraction, and I mean a fraction, of a car

3) weather is not always ideal for this especially if you what to arrive at work not looking like a drained cat

Its very very easy to have weather proof bikes. The issue is when you want to cycle strenuously in the rain then you get really wet, as you typically are wearing less clothes but electric cargo bikes can be fully weather proofed with covers and rain ponchos.

4) " it’s easy to judge based on your own situation, but you can’t sit there and decide abs judge how others should live and behave."

the cyclist lobby would argue that motorists have dictated how we behave for years by insisting we share roads with them but lets put that aside. We're facing a climate, traffic, pollution crisis. If you anyone remembers the pea-soupers of the fifties then our country actually has a strong history of telling people how to behave.