Maybe this is just some sort of tax deductible thing? But from a more sinister or even script writers point of view could be entirely something else!
In the 1970s there was an opticians  shop in north London (gone 30 years plus) which was also used to pass information to a certain middle Easton country.( honest!) 
Elderly and young people used to go there to have glasses adjusted frequently. Could all these new shops be financed for something of this sort,as well as being tax deductible? I can just visualise a James bond type control room  entered by a secret door to the basement or rear of the shop. The 30 foot antenna on the roof with red lights on it might just give it away,but things have changed communications wise over the years.The mere fact that these things could not possibly happen makes it more lightly to be true.
Ways to check would be does the receptionist or optician have any sort of accent,or maybe accent free perfect English?( in Battersea !) Notice if everyone in the waiting room is reading a newspaper without glasses. If you say something harmless about the weather while making appointment are asked a question like do you think the weather in  Haifa is a bit cold at this time of the year? Might be (or not) time to make your excuses as they say and leave.    

I can highly recommend spec savers in st johns street.Excellent service and they passed all the tests!
 

Absolutely get a second opinion. This sounds like a Victorian contraption and three children through orthodontics and we never had this for all sorts of over crowding issues. We started at this practice but moved to one that worked better for us and our children.

I can only speak for my family's experiences but I did want to add to this thread for balance. I have been going to this orthodontic practice for all 3 of my children for the last 8-9 years or so on and off - some treatment was paused and some not started to allow for growth first with timely assessment reviews in the interim so it has not been a constant 8 years. Nonetheless I suspect I have been to probably about 100 appointments in that time! My youngest is nearing the end of treatment now so I won't have many more appointments left.

We had a mixture of private and NHS care for all 3 at different stages of their treatment, all of which was explained and planned for. None of the treatment my children had was particularly straightforward and involved an operation for one child and linked treatment with our dentist for another - which was particularly challenging to co-ordinate appointments given the Covid backlog. The reception staff could not have been more helpful in that regard. Anyway, we are delighted with the results for all 3. Sam was always clear about what needed to happen, how and when. He was also supportive towards the cost elements involved at different stages. He has kept a close eye on my youngest who has had the majority of their treatment on the NHS with a different orthodontist at the practice.

Over time we have got to know the team there pretty well, including the reception staff, all of whom have always been very pleasant to deal with, especially during covid when the children had to have their appointments unaccompanied by parents. Yes there have been times when we have been kept waiting but never for too long and I've experienced worse at our dentist! 

Apologies as I have not read all the responses but I find the 'head gear' solution as terrible for a 9 year old.  My child same age had overcrowding (grown up tooth stuck behind stubborn baby tooth and an extra tooth) so had 2 extractions under local anesthetic at the Wellington Clinic (excellent care) and then invisalign (expensive but  'invisible') for about 6 months and now only a retainer is needed at night.  

our experience there, has been very disappointing. We were referred there by our nhs dentist but on our arrival were told by Sam the NHS route would take too long and sent us to his friend on Harley Street, at a very prohibitive cost. He didn't give us any alternative just literally told us to rush there.
So we went back to our dentist who swas able to re-refer us to st George's directly, seen within 6/8 weeks (not the year's wait that we had been told by Sam) and they even gave us a range of options to choose from and asked my son what he wanted to do!!! 
Incredible really. When we explained all this to our dentist, he basically said that Sam is marmite so half of the patients he sent there comes back moaning, but he can only refer to this one place. 

I would only go if you can get the treatment on the nhs and if you can put up with his manners. he was over familiar to my son and kept pating him on the cheeks, totally unnecessary and inappropriate, making comments about how good looking he was and so had to look after his teeth blablabla... we ran away

My son has been treated here since April this year and Dr Sam has achieved impressive results already. He is very engaged, treats my son as an adult while still consulting me, ans makes the regular consultations fun.

I commented on another post re orthodontist treatment at The Orthodontist Practice, Battersea. My son is now being treated at White & CO on Battersea Rise where we self-referred. We were originally referred to the Orthodontic Practice on Battersea Rise by our dentist but were quite disturbed by how we were treated there - including the orthodontist Dr Sam pulling an only slightly wobbly tooth out from my son's mouth with absolutely no warning to either of us at our assessment meeting which was completely out of order. He just grabbed his tool and pulled it straight out - blood everywhere and my son was hysterical afterwards. I was so shocked I was speechless and should have complained at the time. I certainly would not recommend them at all.  

I would not recommend this practice to anyone either.  Our dental practice (in SW11) used to refer there but they don't anymore because of feedback.  The reception staff were ridiculously rude from the very first interaction. We qualified for NHS treatment and we were kept waiting for an average of 90minutes every time, after I'd taken my son out of school early. We would see patients arrive more than an hour after us and be seen by our orthodontist. If I politely asked if we would be waiting much longer, they would just say 'You're NHS'.  When I had tried to move an appointment, the receptionist said the next appointment was seven weeks later and now I couldn't have my original appointment back because it had been released. This would mean almost 5 months between adjustments so I asked her to run it by the orthodontist and/or the practice manager to see if anything could be done. She said she had but when I wrote to the practice manager to confirm we were leaving the practice, she knew nothing about the issue and assured me that had she known, she'd have squeezed us in somewhere.  I made a formal complaint but I believe the receptionist is still there and still making kids miserable. In Covid, she left my friend's unaccompanied son outside on the pavement for 40mins before letting him, then bawled him out in front of everyone for being late. He was pretty upset.  We moved to White & Co, just up the road, and the difference in our treatment was like night and day.  Wonderful reception staff and Dr Nilufar was a dream.  She had to reposition quite a few of my son's brackets as they would never have given him a perfect smile, just an OK one.  Treatment over now and the results and after care have been five star. Having read the comment above, I will share my experience with NHS England so save others from the experience. 

Thank you all - I had a very similar experience with my son recently, with Dr Sam attempting to push him into heavy treatment that a second (more balanced) opinion has since confirmed was cosmetic and marginal. A very stressful experience for me and my son.

Reading your reviews gave me the confidence to trust my instinct, cancel the follow up that Dr Sam had booked in even though we said we wanted to pause for thought, and seek a second opinion.

I would not recommend this practice to anyone. Profit appears to be being put ahead of proper appropriate patient advice and consent in my experience .

I have since researched and found that NHs England is where to complain to about dentists should any of you wish to complain about your experience

I have been really disappointed with this practice. Without going into too much detail of what my daughter dental situation is, basically Dr Sam from the very first visit adopted a very unprofessional behaviour. He commented on my daughter's looks trying to be flattering in an appropriate circumstance. He commented on the school she attended, saying that to get into such a prestigious private school she must have been very clever. Then he started talking directly to her about a very complicated dental situation which required surgery of an impacted canine, implants and finally braces, for what he described like a very long period of dental care. Needless to say that my daughter got overwhelmed by the details and felt uncomfortable to be constantly addressed to decide what to do. Every time I tried to ask questions he would go back to talk to my daughter patronising her with comments about her being clever and pretty.
Dr Sam also tried every possible trick to make us go private. He warned us that waiting lists to be seen by NHS (as my daughter actually qualified for the NHS treatment) would be 9 months long, and gave us a quote for his private intervention which he refused to itemise upon my request. He could not provide a treatment plan (apart from a few notes scribbled on a piece of paper) nor a clear connection between costs and various steps of the treatment. When we finally decided to go with NHS we were actually seen at St Georges within 3 weeks! The consultant there clarified the route ahead and wrote back to Sam to request for braces to be placed before the hospital could operate my daughter. We therefore went back to the practice and this time Dr Sam came up with something completely new, saying that the consultant requested him to do something he didn't agree with. For the first time he started mentioning issues with my daughter dental alignment that he had never picked upon and used that as a justification for being unable to carry out the work as required by the NHS consultant. Once again he would only address my daughter, mentioned several random reasons why he could not carry out the work and then finally offered to be able to do it privately once again!!! We walked out and I suggest you stay well clear of this unprofessional and manipulative doctor. He has an agenda and is not even that worried about hiding it. DO NOT TRUST and go for second opinion!

Hi,
I am unsure whether a quadhelix device is the same as was suggested to us by Sam but our experience was similar to that described by JP and E4E above. We were told my son needed the very specific treatment urgently (and privately) else, it would necessitate extractions and/or a smile with "black triangles" (i.e., a set of teeth too narrow to achieve a full smile with black gaps at the sides). Once this particular device has been used, an NHS route is no longer available if further treatment with traditional braces is required (something that wasn't highlighted to us at the time but I learnt from a friend that did go down this route with Sam).

My observation was the same as E4E that Sam tried to sell it to my son.  He also whispered information to his receptionist before giving us a quote which I found very unprofessional. It seemed that we were being pressurised down a particular route to ensure we went privately. I also had to asked for further supporting information that was reluctantly provided (a contrast to other practices where a consultation report/ treatment plan was offered as a matter of course).

We also sought 2 further opinions, one of which was an orthodontist who only does private work so no possibility for a hidden agenda. Her advice was to wait as my son was still growing. She started actively treating my son a year and a bit later using Invisalign for the same cost as traditional braces.  It has been a very positive experience, particularly through lockdown as my son could continue the treatment throughout. He has almost completed the treatment with amazing results and much easier, virtually pain-free and quicker than my own experience of traditional braces with headgear, etc.

I am extremely glad we sought another opinion and didn't go with treatment and a practice with which we didn't feel comfortable, particularly as it is usually a journey upwards of 6 months' duration.

Good luck and hope you find something that works for you.

Hi there,

Excuse my ignorance, but is a quadhelix device the same as "head gear"?  An external head brace that connects to teeth clamps via elastic bands?  If so, I would think very carefully about having your daughter fitted with one.  In fact, I would go as far as to say, don't do it.

We had a very similar experience to Juan P above.  We sought a second opinion and the second orthodontist was shocked that headgear had even been considered for a 9 year-old.

Also, I didn't like that the headgear was "sold" directly to my daughter by Sam (who almost excluded me from the conversation) on the basis that she was "so grown up".   Luckily she's is a very grown up and sensible girl so she didn't let that flattery go to her head - literally.

Please PM me if you would like the name of the alternative local NHS orthodontist, where our dentist referred us for a second opinion.  Best to get a second view from a professional.

All good wishes.




 

I would be wary and ask lots of questions. When our 9 year old daughter was referred there for overcrowding she was recommended a head brace at first, or the option of having two teeth out so that an external expander could be fitted. The orthodontist she saw, Sam, tried to sell the headbrace on the basis that she is "very grown up for her age" and would cope.

Needless to say we sought two other opinions. Neither of the two other orthodontists (one NHS/private and the other private - both experienced) agreed with a head brace - it would "finish her childhood" said one and "didn't realise anyone still used those" said another. The recommended treatment route they concurred on independently is "wait and see" with no extractions,  the possibility of an expander 9 months from now or even nothing at all until she is 11 or 12. A teenage "traintrack" brace is probably unavoidable (very common) whatever we do but early intervention may not be necessary and if it is we won't be doing extractions or head gear. 

Now, call me a cynic but a head brace is the most expensive option (versus expander or extraction or do nothing..obvs) and the referring dentist gets a kick back for the orthodontic treatment. Join those dots people. And before someone says "well in the US and Australia they intervene earlier - we are backward in the UK", one of the orthodontists we sought a second opinion from is an Aussie.

Anyway, the choice, as they say, is yours.

There are 3 of us in this family who can heartily recommend Sam and the Practice. Both my husband and I had overcrowded mouths and had to have 4 teeth out and then a brace as children, so it was inevitable that my 2 boys would need orthodontic treatment. However Sam managed to achieve perfect smiles for them with no extractions! It was a bit of a slog, with the jaw expander first (I think that might be what you call the quadhelix?), then a fixed train-tracks brace, head-gear, elastics, etc, but as long as they follow the instructions, he can achieve miracles. And even though my younger son had extra complications and needed more sessions, he never charged more than his original quote.

The third one in the family is me. My teeth have been shuffling around and turning as an adult, so I am just finishing orthodontic treatment with Sam too, after seeing the results for my kids. It's not been much fun wearing a fixed brace, but it comes off next month and my teeth will look amazing. So I'm sure it will all work out well for your daughter, good luck to her!

Thank you so much - we were automatically referred, so it's very useful to hear.