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Re: Did it help partner's career when you gave up work?

by PNW » Fri Oct 18, 2024 11:51 am

Thank you everyone for the repies.

Goldhawk - yes we are married. I agree, without it could be a very different situation.

SLD - I think it's the potential change in the relationship over time I'm most worried about. That old phrase, "nothing changes in two years but everything changes in ten" springs to mind.

Still a lot to digest.

Re: Did it help partner's career when you gave up work?

by SouthLondonDaddy » Fri Oct 18, 2024 9:23 am

OP, I have recently witnessed a very disturbing interaction between a couple of acquaintances.
They're not close, I don't know them very well, but I know that he earns a lot more, and she took a few years off work to look after the kids, and has now gone back part time in a PA role (so I can only guess she won't be making £££).

She was complaining that she had to be away for a few days and, when she came back, the house was a total mess.
He snapped that "well, somebody has to work and pay the bills, you know"

This was at a (state) school event, in front of many other parents (mostly strangers).

I can only imagine what he must say to her when they are alone.

Of course I have no idea if he was always this charming, so this kind of behaviour was to be expected, or if he has changed over the years.

Just remember it's a possibility.

Have you ever heard the term "f* you money"?

In some cases it means having made so much money that you can tell your boss to * off.

But feminists use it differently: it means having the savings and the resources to be able to leave a toxic relationship or a toxic boss, ie not to be forced to stay just because otherwise you wouldn't be able to pay your bills.

Of course I am not implying your relationship will become toxic! Just saying that the importance of some financial independence cannot be underestimated.

Re: Did it help partner's career when you gave up work?

by Goldhawk » Mon Oct 14, 2024 11:35 am

Are you married or not?
I would not give up work/career without marriage

Re: Did it help partner's career when you gave up work?

by PNW » Mon Oct 14, 2024 11:09 am

Thank you again for all the replies.

I guess the main thing I hadn't thought of was going back to work. Not because I don't want to but for some reason it seems so far off it just didn't cross my mind.

If I do have to go back to work further down the line then that is a very different situation. As in I'll be that much older pro-rata than my worked experience and I can imagine, as others have said here, that this is really difficult.

So there are a number of potential "future-me" pathways based on the advice and they are:

1. Give up work now and live happily ever after and never go back to work
2. Give up work now and then find relationship disintegrates at some stage so have to go back to work as a single parent
3. Give up work now and then after some time off to raise family, I go back to work
4. Don't give up work and continue as we are

I know the other option is for OH to give up work but as I explained at the start that doesn't make financial sense.

A lot to think about.

Thank you again.

Re: Did it help partner's career when you gave up work?

by Elenita4ever » Mon Oct 14, 2024 10:02 am

Hi there,

Interesting question and some great replies.

I would also recommend Merryn’s book “Love is Not Enough” as per previous poster. Also, I would print out South London Daddy’s response and keep it on hand as a guide :)

From my perspective, the main thing to consider is “can you go back to your career, should you need to, after giving up or going part time?”

Agree 100% that the world is full of high-earners who crashed and burned. But it’s not just your partner who could end up in that pile. At 54, I’m probably a lot older than you (although my kids are probably not older than yours - I’m an older Mum), but my career has come to a screeching halt in the last year.

Now, it very much depends on what you do - if you’re in a legal, healthcare, accountancy profession then this won’t necessarily apply. But if, like me, you are in a senior corporate role, if you lose your job or choose to leave it, it’s incredibly difficult to get another one - certainly at the moment.

Now, this is partly a function of my age (54), the current job market (terrible), my profession (digital products) and a little bit a function of my gender (female) - but equally, I know many 50+ men in my position.

So, just wanted to echo those other two posters and especially point out that for many people (especially women of a certain age) getting back into a role after stepping off the corporate ladder, isn’t always viable or possible. It’s not even straightforward finding part-time work or pivot to another career - though I’m still hopeful!

Good luck and wish you all the best.

Re: Did it help partner's career when you gave up work?

by dhcwong » Mon Oct 14, 2024 7:25 am

Congrats on your situation. Agree with many of the posters above. It will be amazing but only with the right partner and a joint account.

In my situation, I finally had time to indulge in all my numerous hobbies and artistic/community interests, monetising them along the way, which means I actually do work part time, but it feels like fun! My pay goes all the way down, but as I take care of the household accounts and budget, both the husband and I spend according to our operational budget and it works out.  

It's amazing what you can achieve at home when you have an ex- professional in charge - everything runs like clockwork, and educating the kids with homework is transcendent - the information, jokes, quotes, and factoids, not to mention music thrown my kids way are richer than what nanny can achieve. 

The kids are so happy to have support from Mummy, and the husband is really free to achieve at work, and both parents have the time and energy at night to take care of their own relationship as all the chores have been done in the daytime. I was an economist, and I truly believe in economic specialisation. Let one partner specialise in earning money and the other run the home properly.  

Caveat - it works only if you have strong hobbies and interests. In my sister's case, she mentioned that 'My identity is work -my hobby was drinking with colleagues'. It was nautral for her to go back to work and her family is thriving as well.  

Re: Did it help partner's career when you gave up work?

by Namechanged24 » Fri Oct 11, 2024 11:01 am

SouthLondonDaddy wrote:
> This matter is not specific to SW London. You will have better luck posting
> on national forums like mumsnet. In fact, I'm sure you'll find plenty of
> thread there.
>
> A few thoughts:
> [list=1]
> [*]job security: how stable is his job? is it the kind of job where he
> could retire after 5 years? Or the kind of job where he earns well, but if
> he gets fired in his late 40s / early 50s then it will be very, very hard
> to find a comparable job? The world is full of high flyers who crash hard
> and never take off again.
> [*]pension: if you stop working, will he at least pay into an ISA or
> something in your name only to compensate for the lack of pension
> [*]Your job / sector: what is your field? If you change your mind and want
> to go back to working after a couple of years, how feasible is it?
> [*]part time: is a part time feasible? Would you find it a reasonable
> compromise? The problem with part time is that in some cases you get paid
> 50% but are expected to do 75% of the work
> [*]divorce: I don't want to jinx anyone, but this is something to think
> about. Saying that it can never happen to you is naïve. At the very least
> you should consider the possibility and accept the risk. But you can't say
> the risk is zero.
> [*]will you get bored? There are only so many gym classes and tradwives
> lunches you can go to.
> [*]Will you become a helicopter mum? Will you lose your marbles once the
> kids leave the nest? Of course it doesn't happen to everyone but I have
> seen it happen.
> [*]Your relationship: only you can know if he will feel justified in doing
> even less in the house, in vomiting back at you "oh but you don't
> work" when you have an argument, etc
> [/list]

This is a good reply. It all boils down to a person's own specifics. Giving up/heavily scaling down on work makes more sense, other things being equal, the more times you would say 'yes' to a list of questions like the following. Conversely, anyone with more than a handful of 'no's would be, other things being equal, bonkers to give up work.


1) Husband's prospects at work are, health permitting or maybe even health not permitting, rock solid;

2) OP has friends & family close by who don't work;

3) OP has the buffer provided by being asset [not income] rich, either as an individual or couple;

4) OP dislikes work/has poor career prospects/OP's work isn't really flexible/is very demanding;

5) Husband's finances are very transparent to OP;

6) OP is a homebody who's happy pottering around on her own;

7) OP has strong interests & hobbies that could be better pursued with few work commitments;

8) OP's kids are relatively young and/or there are many of them.

Re: Did it help partner's career when you gave up work?

by WoodenShoes » Thu Oct 10, 2024 10:00 am

I do not mean to be pessimistic - and I truly hope you never have to worry about this - but from personal experience, the person you are with can be very different to the person you divorce (if it ever comes to that). The only reason why I still have a roof over my head and food on the table is because I continued working. Be very mindful to let go of your financial independence.
When it was time to face the divorce, my ex-husband, who also worked on a hedge fund, decided to make things as hard as possible. This included deciding he was no longer in a position to ever have the same pattern of work due to mental health reasons and making a significant number of assets disappear.
Yes, you can try to fight it in court but it is extremely expensive and never as straight forward as you expect it to be. Furthermore, child maintenance is paid based on income (and not on assets, unless these as significant and in the millions) - hence if your other side decides working is no longer possible you may find yourself having zero child maintenance.
Again, a lot of people never face these challenges but just things to think about and see how comfortable you feel.

Re: Did it help partner's career when you gave up work?

by Goodluck » Thu Oct 10, 2024 9:07 am

Hi there

I was in a similar position about 10 years ago to what you are now and gave up my job. There are a few things that if you decide to do it, I would definitely recommend considering.

Even if you go part time, it is incredibly important to have a joint bank account with both of your salaries going into the same account. This is essential in shifting the mindset, of your spouse in particular, to thinking about your finances as a collective effort rather than being something that is theirs or yours.

When I stopped working, my husband felt a lot more stress and burden being the sole breadwinner and this caused resentment and issues in our relationship. About five years after making partner, he left the partnership and started his own business which paid him substantially less money but he was much happier.

I now work full-time again, and our children are thankfully a bit older now too. Life feels much more balanced, and the share of household and caretaking responsibilities also feels a lot more balanced. As much as I would like to work part time, I now think about my pension savings, and the fact that I will be almost fully financially dependent on my husband’s pension when we are older if I do not work full-time until we retire.

Having watched other people work through similar issues, the ones that seem to have been happiest and found the best level of balance between having their own life and caring for a family are the people who have worked part time at around three days per week.

Sincerely hope this advice helps you.

Good luck with it all!

Re: Did it help partner's career when you gave up work?

by Financial freedom » Mon Oct 07, 2024 11:09 pm

I echo the previous posts that make good, honest and real points that I resonate with. We know there are no certainties in life and things can change overnight, whether we want them to or not.

Unless you have another income stream that is separate to your partner/husband, or you are financially secure in your own right, I would absolutely seek financial advice on the do's and dont's to protect you both.

Having clear expectations and boundaries and the difficult conversations would be something I'd absolutely want to have if I was in your shoes. Resentment isn't easy to turn around once it starts creeping in. The emotional and psychological aspect of feeling you've given parts of yourself up could be much harder to navigate without honest communication.

Maybe worth asking your employer about a sabbatical and having an extended break. That way it could be more of an exciting chapter you get to experience as a family, where you can step away from work for an agreed period of time.

Possibly too painful to ever imagine..... what if you choose to leave the relationship/family home sometime in the future, could you financially afford to make that decision.

3 long maternity breaks were enough for me and then returning to work part time. As my kids have grown up youngest is 12, I've moved industries, got my head back in the game and really got my career mojo back. My partner also sees that side of me as sexy and empowering.

We all have different needs and ways of finding fulfilment. I often went to work for a break as I needed to change my environment and enjoy not just being a mum for many different reasons. It's made this chapter in my life much easier knowing I'm employable and can pivot, and along the way I've hopefully shown my children resilience and perserverance.

Wishing you and your family all the best.

Re: Did it help partner's career when you gave up work?

by SouthLondonDaddy » Mon Oct 07, 2024 11:01 pm

PS on job security, the Institute for Fiscal studies reported that 
https://ifs.org.uk/publications/charact ... omes-top-1

The top 1% of income tax payers are not a stable group – a quarter of those in the top 1% in one year will not be there the next. After five years, only half will still be in the top 1%.

This study dates back to 2019. Not sure if they have a more recent one. Anyway, I don't want to jinx anybody :) but I hope you get the gist!

Re: Did it help partner's career when you gave up work?

by SouthLondonDaddy » Mon Oct 07, 2024 7:12 pm

This matter is not specific to SW London. You will have better luck posting on national forums like mumsnet. In fact, I'm sure you'll find plenty of thread there.

A few thoughts:
  1. job security: how stable is his job? is it the kind of job where he could retire after 5 years? Or the kind of job where he earns well, but if he gets fired in his late 40s / early 50s then it will be very, very hard to find a comparable job? The world is full of high flyers who crash hard and never take off again.
  2. pension: if you stop working, will he at least pay into an ISA or something in your name only to compensate for the lack of pension
  3. Your job / sector: what is your field? If you change your mind and want to go back to working after a couple of years, how feasible is it?
  4. part time: is a part time feasible? Would you find it a reasonable compromise? The problem with part time is that in some cases you get paid 50% but are expected to do 75% of the work
  5. divorce: I don't want to jinx anyone, but this is something to think about. Saying that it can never happen to you is naïve. At the very least you should consider the possibility and accept the risk. But you can't say the risk is zero.
  6. will you get bored? There are only so many gym classes and tradwives lunches you can go to.
  7. Will you become a helicopter mum? Will you lose your marbles once the kids leave the nest? Of course it doesn't happen to everyone but I have seen it happen.
  8. Your relationship: only you can know if he will feel justified in doing even less in the house, in vomiting back at you "oh but you don't work" when you have an argument, etc

Re: Did it help partner's career when you gave up work?

by richgirl » Mon Oct 07, 2024 4:48 pm

My first question is - you said “partner” rather than husband. If you are not married or in a civil partnership with him then don’t even think about it. You have no rights at all. A lot of women seem to be under the illusion that there’s such a thing as a “common law” wife. There isn’t. He dies and you have to pay inheritance tax. He leaves you and you’re not entitled to anything beyond maintenance for the kids. Conversely if you are married or in a partnership it’s meaningless to talk about his money or your (sing.) money. It’s your joint money, even if he earns it.

My husband was a partner in a city firm and was on seven figures for the last ten years or so of his career (he’s now retired.) There’s no way I could have earned anything remotely approaching that so I knew that if I worked I would do it just for the pleasure of working, and it’s very hard to find a job you love so much that you do it for effectively no money. I did however realise I was very bored being a SAHM and so trained as an artist and have used that as my way of not going doolally. I earn virtually nothing from it but I enjoy it and it gives me a sense of purpose.

Not having both of you working full time allows you to spend more time with the kids, allows you to plan holidays, shop during the week, get stuff done etc. I used to wonder how couples managed when both were working. But as the poster above says, you do lose a sense of self-worth not having a proper career and other mums can be quite judgmental about it.

There’s no easy answer I’m afraid. If you can try it out for a few months to see if it works for you that would be the best option. Maybe try and take a sabbatical? But if your relationship is not on a legal footing I’d sort that first before you do anything.

Re: Did it help partner's career when you gave up work?

by sid_seal » Mon Oct 07, 2024 4:40 pm

I agree with those suggesting part-time as a good compromise.
Without thinking of the worst, if you say that you like your job why should you give it up? If after a few years at home you decided to go back it would be more difficult to do so having been out of the game than to up your hours if you have stayed in.

I went part-time after my children both started school (counterintuitively). Even now that they are teens and don't need my presence for practical things I wouldn't go back to full time: it keeps us all sane!
Still, my job is part of my identity. I'd like to think that my children are learning something about work ethics, dealing with a range of different people, etc from what they hear about my workplace, my rants about difficult colleagues and useless senior management, the random acts of kindness from my lovely colleagues and the sense of solidarity with them.

My husband and I have always had shared finances, with a joint account, and there was never a doubt that we would have equal say in how we use our money and equal access to it. If this is the case for you things will be a lot easier!
 

Re: Did it help partner's career when you gave up work?

by MagnoliaMum » Mon Oct 07, 2024 3:39 pm

Here's another point of view to throw into the mix. I have absolutely loved being a stay at home mum and I'm sure I've made it much easier for my husband to focus on his career and get to the very top. We have always treated it as a shared team effort and my husband has understood and valued my contribution of taking over organising everything to do with the family and the home, car, garden etc, so that he can devote more of his energy to work. I don't see it as a necessarily sexist thing; he says that the women who are high up in his organisation also have partners relieving them of home/children duties.

For us, it was never the plan initially but a series of family and health crises meant one of us had to stop for a number of years and it made sense for that to be me (as the breastfeeder, the slightly lower earner and the one who wanted to do the home stuff most). When the dust settled afterwards and my husband's career was escalating, we had a discussion as to whether it made sense for me to go back at least part-time but agreed that the small additional income wouldn't be worth all the hassle (my former area of work was very stressful) and limitations. My husband's job has long hours and is demanding and uncompromising - it would always have to be me taking time off if a child is sick or managing the long school holidays, let alone going to support the kids in school plays, sports days etc. I actively wanted to be there for these aspects of my kids' lives. It has also helped having plenty of time and energy to be emotionally present for them too - this has been essential to manage all the teenage stuff positively and successfully.

I think that if you stay at home then, to keep your own self confidence and prevent your husband (and indeed your kids too) coming to view you as a domestic help, it is essential to make sure you retain an identity beyond 'mum/homekeeper'. So once the children are at school, you should pursue your own interests and hobbies and give back to your community. Charity or voluntary work, supporting extended family, organising social events for friends, fitness, taking courses and learning skills, meeting husband's colleagues etc - there are a lot of ways to give back, to keep yourself and your brain challenged and prevent you growing apart. Another plus for us was being able to get a family dog.

It works for us. We do have a joint account and do all the tax break and pension stuff recommended by other posters. The divorce position would be grim, I'm sure - but then we are probably better off than we might have been. (By the way, it's not clear if you're already married, if not you should absolutely make sure you get married before thinking of quitting your job.) Some of my domestic workload is negotiable (I get my husband to be responsible for a meal at weekends, for example, and to do some of the driving kids to sports) but realistically you should expect to be left with most of the domestic stuff (but you might end up that way even if working, according to statistics!).

The main negative I have found is that people in our society judge you superficially on what you do for a living. It seems that a very low value is given to all the enormous amount of effort that it takes to run a home and a family smoothly and that women can be seen as failures if they don't hold down a demanding job as well! So sometimes when I am meeting new people at a party, it's the first thing they ask and I can be made to feel a bit inadequate or shallow or lazy or as if I'm super-privileged (ok, this one applies!) or worthless because I'm not personally earning money. I try not to care, knowing that it's a team effort, dividing the total 'family labour' so that it is more manageable and sustainable through all life's changes and stresses - of which we've had a lot. There's no way of knowing how things would have turned out otherwise, but we rarely argue, our kids are solid and we are both grateful for what the other is contributing. 

As for your decision - unlike in earlier times there are no longer any right or wrong set-ups now and you'll be able to find ways of outsourcing things if you want to keep working too. I think you have to make your decision based on what feels individually right for you (how much of your identity is connected to your job or your parenting? do you have lots of interests you want to pursue beyond home/children?) and what feels right for you as a couple (does your husband have strong views?) and as a family unit (what are the needs of your kids?). It is sensible to think and talk about this all carefully beforehand, as you're clearly doing.

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