I kind of think that if a family are prepared to go to multiple church services in one day to fulfill multiple schools' entrance criteria then that's their choice - after all everyone could do this if they wanted.

I think it's wrong to assume people do not "change faith" just to get their child into school. I know of at least one Catholic family in the St Michael's Southfields catchment who are attending the local C of E church on a semi regular basis (admission form cites you must visit twice per month) in order to get into the school. They are also able to attend their catholic church as handily the C of E service is in the morning and the Catholic in the evening!!!!! The admission form asks for details of church attendance but does not specifically ask your faith or what church your child was christened/baptised into (my friend's was baptised Catholic 2 years ago!!)

It seems pretty unfair but as someone else has said, people will go to any lengths!!! Will be interesting to see if the C of E attendance is kept up when and IF he gets a place!!!!!

This is purely anecdotal but I thought I'd stick my oar in anyway

I went to a Catholic school as it was the nearest school to us and, at the time, it had a great reputation. We were brought up as Methodists (not a great start in life ) but that didn't seem to bother anyone - parents or school.

Apart from several of the teachers getting sacked for paedo-ing the kids, or battering them (corporal punishment being illegal), a few of the older pupils slept with some of the younger teachers; I learnt more than I ever needed to about sex (not from the teachers!), drugs, violence and breaking into cars. Truancy was rife although the school LIED about it on paper - they claimed they had a 0% truancy rating!!

The best education I got was actually from my poor, worn-out parents. And I've not done too badly

So the moral of this story is schools change, their standards fluctuate, you never *really* know who's educating your children and the most important lessons, values and standards they learn will be from watching you - their parents/guardians - and the time you spend with them.

very interesting debate!!! personally i don't think this is any worse than families who lie about where they live (i know plenty who use grandparents addresses etc) to get in to a particular school. When it comes to finding the best school for your children, then i think parents will use any means necessary!!!

Interesting article on this today:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/201 ... est-pupils

From all I've read so far it sounds like the RC schools should be made church schools in the full meaning of the expression - i.e. they should be subsidized 90% by the RC church itself and 10% by tax payers - if they want to pick and choose the children attending those schools according to their religion or how active their family is. The way things are now everyone - RC or not - should be extended equal chances of attending a RC school.
That being said, I don't see why non-catholics would want to send their kids to a catholic school if they teach the kids the catholic doctrines there (not that I know for sure that they do that )
Besides, going to church on Sundays doesn't make anyone a good Christian the same way standing in your garage with the hood of your car open doesn't make you a mechanic

Just to clear up a few misunderstandings. So called faith schools are inherently sectarian and discriminatory in their nature. Yes, the churches do contribute, but the taxpayer pays over 90% of the running costs of faith schools. With a little judicious planning and grant management, this figure could be even higher. People say that Catholics pay taxes so therefore the government should pay for their schools. Well, the majority of the population are not catholic (and increasingly less so Christian) so your schools are effectively being subsidised by the general population and often to the detriment of non-faith schools (especially now that schools are increasingly opting out of local council control).

I went to school in Holy Ghost and then went to Clapham college in Clapham South. Holy Ghost at the time was ok and Clapham College was appalling (it was in the process of being closed down as I was leaving). Their faith ethos made no difference to the education on offer at that time. When I left that school system, I didn't know a single non-catholic. How on earth did that prepare me for life? Given today's multi-cultural society it's very unwise to educate people in such an isolated and culturally exclusive environment.

What a stupid argument re taxpayers. Catholics pay tax too - non Catholics are perfectly welcome at many Catholic schools but are only interested in the outstanding ones - funny that! Why on earth would you want to send your children to a school which teaches them beliefs which are not your own - whether it's round the corner from you or not?!

Wow. Pretty strong statements. Each to their own I guess. I personally don't have a problem with people who have a faith, and want to educate their children within this faith.

Over subscribed Catholic schools have very few christian values.

This conversation got very heated a year or so go and I don't want to rehash all of this but the ones I looked at were smug, discriminatory, unforgiving, and full of a lot of pride.

Its a scandal.

I asked about this a few years ago and couldn't believe that these schools, which discriminate on religion, are funded by the tax payer.

I'm not particulary religious, and every time I hear about stuff like this it reminds me why I don't have any faith.

It's completely different to very wealthy people renting houses near to popular schools in order to 'steal' a place from a closer and more deserving child.

My husband and I are practising Catholics who have indeed 'upped' our attendance to see if we can secure a place for our son. However, there is absolutely no way I would do this if I didn't have a strong faith anyway, and wish to give our children an education that includes a strong religious slant. It's also a great way of getting involved in our community and the benefits are endless, even if we fail to get a place.

Not a comparison in my humble opinion!

It is HUGE commitment to put your children into a faith school. It us not just about giving them a good education, it is also accepting that they are going to be taught a lot about the religion and the faith in question. So i doubt if any parents who are a little or not at all religious would suddenly become religious and church goers in order to put their children into these schools. I am a church goer, our children attend mass too but i would for example never put my children in a catholic school.

Maybe because your nearest school is Catholic and you aren't near any others. They are an excellent school and frankly who cares if the assemblies etc. are quite religious, the rest of the curriculum is going to be the same as everywhere else.
Everyone pays the same taxes so why should some schools be able to exclude those that aren't a certain faith?? And its ok, I know the answer is that the church pays towards these schools..
I just think that it is divisive and that all faith schools should be converted back to community schools.
And yes people do attend church every sunday for 3 years to get their children into these schools, catholic and c of e, most seeing it as a small price to pay compared to either not having any other place, depending on where they live or having to pay for private fees. Often they just 'conveniently' remember that they are religious when they are pregnant and looking into schools.

Why would you want your child to go to a Catholic school if you weren't a practising Catholic? With so many good non-faith schools around here and in reality, the "bad" schools are just a myth as each place is a personal choice. That is why this system is so crazy, in France you just go to the local school, there isn't any choice what so ever unless you go private... Would we want that?