State versus private - which provides best education? Post Reply

[ready2pop]

Well, my mother stayed at home as did pretty much all the mothers of my friends. I went to Oxford, then into law and had my own practice by the time I was 27. I was the higher earner at the time my first child was born. So I don't think it is a new situation nor a problem really.

Instill the confidence in your daughters to believe they can do anything they want and let them decide. The main thing is that we now have the choice.

I loved having my mother at home as a child and wanted to be home for my children. I may go back to work as they get older but that will then mean they won't see either parent except at weekends because we'd both be working crazy hours.

They'd then be looked after by an au pair or nanny, who'd presumably be female and, let's face it, paid pretty little to do a whole range of domestic tasks. Not sure that would be a better female role model.

Also it is worth bearing in mind that most of the teachers at the Prep school are women. Well educated women pursuing careers they love.

[NorthcoteLuvvie]

Interesting replies R2P and MM.

To be clear I'm not saying that its wrong for mums to stay at home.

I'm just increasingly worried that we are raising girls who don't see a career as the norm.

To continue the logic, I guess you can both afford to give up work because you entered high paying professions as women then married men (please tell me if any of my assumptions are wrong, I don't know you and so could easily be wrong) who also worked in these high paying professions.

Again, this is a guess so please shout if wrong.

So does that mean what are daughters see is the need to work really hard so you can get a job in the city at a senior level to meet a bloke to marry him and then stop work to raise a family.

Is that neo-feminism?

My head hurts!!!

I think I need a glass of wine

[ready2pop]

I met my husband at uni. We then both went into city jobs. When I stopped working I earnt a lot more than him and it wasn't definite his career would catch up (no where near 200k at that point). We decided we'd rather have less money but more time with the children.

I worry more about the model we are setting for my son. I've had a good career but also now time for the family so they see women can do either. By contrast, all the men they know have high powered well paid city jobs. Quite a lot of pressure to follow the same path when I want him to do something he loves regardless of the money.

[ready2pop]

Oh and part of the reason I can afford not to work now is because I earned a lot before which put us in a strong position financially so we have a low mortgage and I had savings.

Yes my husband's income now sustains us but a lot of our assets were funded by me.

[LauraBrown]

I hope I didn't give the impression that I think one parent staying at home is a bad thing. My husband and I have both done it at different times! I totally agree that a parent who is not working can be an excellent role model. And, calling anyone a 'trophy wife' is such a horrible sexist term.

And, it's a very good point that so many of our mums stayed at home and didn't have major careers and it doesn't seem to have affected many women's ambition levels...

Except, there are SO few men who stay at home comparatively and it is SO often women whose careers take a step back. So in my view, there is still a problem and we do not have the genuine choice and equality that I would want for my daughter and my sons.

[LauraBrown]

Agree about worrying about the pressure on boys in some areas ready2pop - that's what I mean about choice for everyone really.

[NorthcoteLuvvie]

I know of one family that took their daughter OUT of a private school and sent her state so they could send their son to board.

They could just afford two sets of day school fees but the boarding fees were too much of a stretch.

I can imagine that sets the scene for some pretty heavy sibling resentment later on

[FAFB]

Can I please disagree vigorously with the person who said that an Oxbridge/Ivy League education is wasted on staying at home with children?

For what it's worth, I have an Oxbridge education, and I have been (mostly) at home with my children for the past six years. What could possibly be a better use of my education than helping my small children to develop a love of learning and inquisitive minds? Sure, there's a bit of drudgery too, but there was also quite a lot of dull admin in my previous City job.

I do share the concerns of earlier posters who say that our daughters (and sons) should have female role models with successful careers too, and my personal preference would be to work seriously again in the future. As a feminist, though, I think it's such a shame to belittle the traditional female job of bringing up children, instead of celebrating it as really important.

[LauraBrown]

That's a shocker mungomuffit!! Although actually, I got a scholarship to a private secondary school and my brothers went to the local state school so we may have looked like an interesting version of that to others I knew a bloke at school whose parents did what you describe - seemed a bit strange at the time...

The level of a mother's education is one of the best predictors of a child's attainment at school so definitely not a waste to get a good education

[BFW]

What a good thread – and civil which makes a nice change !
I am going to give you a different perspective on the working mothers. My mum was a SAHM – I have lovely memories of coming back from school and sitting down around the kitchen table after school and chatting about school / doing my homework while my mum prepared dinner. Maybe it’s a slightly romantic memory – I am sure there were fights and arguments too! But it makes me very sad to think that my children are missing out on this – by the time I get back from work at 6.30 we are all really tired, trying to finish homework, cook dinner and get everyone to bed together with trying to do the washing and sorting the house out.

And work wise – before my second I held a very senior position in the City and used to run a team of 20 people – I went back part time after my second to try and get a little balance (4 days a week so not that balanced but better than full time!) and as such had to relinquish certain aspects of my job.

So I feel guilty the whole time that I am not around my children more and that I miss out on a lot of their school matches and workwise I am definitely not as “senior” as I could be ! You can’t have it all…do I feel like a role model for my daughter ? Not sure I do actually - I feel more like a frazzled mum trying to keep on top of everything and not always succeeding!

[jafina]

Sorry northcote luvvie but I have racked my brain to think of some trophy type wives at our (private) school and I really can't think of a single one!

The last 4 playdates my daughter has been on the mothers have been: woman who owns a successful local business and was home for the playdate, mum of 3 children under 5 (!) who does all the admin for her family's business during school hours, full time working mum who has a nanny, mum of 3 who works in marketing during school hours. I am the only non-salaried one amongst them! My husband would laugh out loud at the idea that he gets to come home and put his feet up - quite the opposite.

No issues with other mums as role models for my little girl. I just asked her what she wanted to be when she grows up, slightly worried she was going to say "banker's wife" but thankfully she said "musician or experimenter". Not sure what experimenter is but I will assume scientist!

I do worry about my sons though, I agree with another poster who talked about boys being expected to work in a job that pays loads. I think that is very sad and I do keep trying to emphasise to my boys how important it is to do a job you enjoy. I worked in the City for 8 years and hated it for the last 3 years, would never go back to it and I don't want ANY of my children to have to feel they need to do a job they dislike just for the money.

BFW - your issues around working are one of the main reasons I am a SAHM, I just don't have the energy/brains/organisational skills to do both work and motherhood well. I greatly admire those who do.

As for the state and private debate - big downside of private schools is the incredibly long holidays! But then I have friends with children in state sector who bemoan their short holidays so I guess you can't win.

Diversity or lack of is an issue for me, but I am reminded that I grew up in a small town where everyone was white and spoke English as their first language. Not a lot of diversity there, and I think my children see more different cultures and classes just living in London than I ever did at my state school.

[pie81]

What an interesting thread.

I wonder if anyone would venture an opinion on which local (private) schools have the highest proportion of working mums?

And which are most "working mum friendly" in the sense of not expecting costumes and cakes at a moment's notice?

I have a toddler daughter and will need to choose a school for her fairly soon, from the ones we are registered at. I am working myself (4 days a week, City lawyer) and hopefully will still be working by the time she starts. So working parent friendliness is one (of many) criteria for choosing.

ready2go, could I ask, why was it you who stopped work rather than your husband, if you earned so much more? Did you not like your job?

[ready2pop]

Pie81 I liked my job but it was very hard work and long hours and as I was running my own practice there was no way I could scale that back or work fewer days per week. So it was all or nothing really. If I'd carried on then I would barely have seen the children. I'd have been leaving just after they woke and back after bedtime. Weekends wouldn't have been free from work either as I was a divorce lawyer so regularly had to run to court on weekends when clients weekend contact arrangements with their kids went tits up.

I did enjoy it but wanted more to my life than just work.

[ready2pop]

Thanks MM. It's easier to do if you are in an area where you work for individuals rather than corporates. Much easier to build up a following and once you have loyal clients then it just makes no sense to be working for a salary with a whole load of partners above you making the real money, when you could go it alone, work for the clients directly and pocket the lot.à

[AbbevilleMummy]

This thread is now going slightly off topic, but to add to the SAHM/daughter debate...

One of the main reasons I work is to be a role model to my daughter.

Right now it makes little difference and I have no doubt what-so-ever that she would much rather me be a SAHM and that does make me feel very guilty almost every day. Unfortunately I work in an industry where a 5 year career break is simply not an option.

However, I know that she will appreciate it when she is older. I had a stay at home mum and it was lovely when I was little, but I'm ashamed to say, I didn't really respect her opinions regarding uni/career choices/a-level decisions etc etc once I was a teenager and reverted to my father for advice instead.

Maybe that was just because she had always been a stay at home mum and was not degree educated etc. Maybe it would have been different if she had at some point before I was born had a career. I don't know.

But I want to show my daughter that with a lot of work, plenty of juggling, outsourcing unimportant stuff like cleaning, ironing etc, and having clear priorities, that you really can have a very successful, rewarding career and a family.

That said, I'm only a few years in, it might have broken me by the time she's a teenager!