Tank parade Post Reply

[papinian]

Recent studies show, one in ten prisoners in British prisons is an ex-soldier
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 44479.html
As we have seen from the war crimes cases involving British soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan, the criminal activity doesn't start after they leave the army.

Many of us in the borough come from countries with histories of British army atrocities - there are plenty to go round. The last thing we want is to see them on our high streets.

[townieatheart]

Papinian studies also show that over 75% of UK inmates are adult males.
So what exactly is your point? Should we condone all soldiers because of 10% of them?? Should I avoid all contact with men just in case?? We can't spend our lives basing our opinions on negative statistics.

[Annabel (admin)]

Hi
I've split the "tank parade" topic into two.

I am more than happy for everyone to have a debate on (almost) any issue but don't want to confuse posts.

Thanks

A

[papinian]

Papinian studies also show that over 75% of UK inmates are adult males.
So what exactly is your point? Should we condone all soldiers because of 10% of them?? Should I avoid all contact with men just in case?? We can't spend our lives basing our opinions on negative statistics.

If as a five year old you had seen two British soldiers order your eight month pregnant mother out of your parents car and make her stand by the side of a country road for half an hour while they emptied on to the muddy ground the contents of the suitcases that your parents had carefully packed that morning to take their children on holiday you might understand why some of us don't want to see British soldiers marching down our high street.

This sort of parade is a political act by Wandsworth Council Conservatives to keep the white English vote happy - just like Annabel's splitting off of my original post. Annabel's happy to leave racist posts about Filipino nannies around but not so keen on anything that mind not accord with white English middle class sensibilities. I know exactly where British soldiers belong and it's not on my high street.

[livegreen]

@papinian. Is there anything about our country you like, why did you move here ? Why do you post on this website if you dislike the contribution made by Annabelle?
How would you deal with the Taliban ? Do you have daughters and how would you like them educated ?

[papinian]

@papinian. Is there anything about our country you like, why did you move here ? Why do you post on this website if you dislike the contribution made by Annabelle?
How would you deal with the Taliban ? Do you have daughters and how would you like them educated ?

First, stop with the "our country" and "why did you move here". All four of my grandparents were born in the U.K. My parents have had British passports all their lives. The event I referred to in my earlier post happened in the U.K.

Secondly, what have the Taliban got to do with anything? It's really sad how those pushing for U.S. and U.K. militarism abroad were able to use these sort of lazy "feminist" arguments, but even more sad how many people trot them out. If you think British military adventurism in Afghanistan or Iraq has helped women or girls there you are very much mistaken.

[livegreen]

@papinian. You obviously have a very large chip on your shoulder about quite a few things. I do not put any faith into other peoples anecdotes, especially on an anonymous website, however you are entitled to your own political beliefs.
One of the great things about living in our great democracy is that you are allowed your opinions with no fear.
One of the reasons we are all able to practice freedom of speech is due to our fantastic armed forces and I for one will make a point of offering my thanks if they parade in our area, especially after serving in a hostile country.
NB Girls now attend schools in Afganistan, previously under the Taliban families could be stoned for educating girls.

[townieatheart]

Papinian, I am sorry you went through what must have been a traumatic experience, especially at such a young age. It is sad however that the actions of 2 individuals has tainted your view of the entire armed forces, enough for you to actively post to discourage people from supporting them.

[Mrs Contractor Mum]

I think some people forget that the recent history and people's potentially negative experiences of the British army aren't just associated with Iraq and Afganistan but through living in Northern Ireland (part of the UK) and that experience will have tainted their view of the armed forces.

Others think of the armed forces as liberators from WW1and 2 and just a force for good.

I think history still has to determine whether Iraq and Afganistan were 'a success' for the UK in eradicating the Taliban but it must be remembered that the army is there to protect the country as required by the government of the day.

Happy to celebrate the armed forces for their duty in protecting the nation and laying their lives down; happy to disagree about decisions made by the government that lead them to have to fight and lay down their life.

[juliantenniscoach]

I've got no problem with a parade for homecoming soldiers. The stats re the prison population are as much to do with the poor reintegration the services offer to ex-serviceman as much as their supposed 'criminality'. They deserve support and recognition for the impossible task they were sent to do.

The military were sold down the river by Blair and Bush on an adventure that never could be won (and it hasn't). At least Cameron and Obama are getting them out albeit slowly. As a campaign it's been an unmitigated disaster. Billions spent with only greater Kabul operating as a recognisable state. As with the situation in Iraq, the country will revert to factional fiefdom with the Taliaban allied groups holding power across the country. It wouldn't surprise me to see Karzai living in Switzerland within 18 months.

Papingan - you don't explain the context in which your parents car was stopped and searched. Given the fact that extremists select the mentally ill and other vunerable people for suicide bombings, context is everything. One man's invader is another's liberator are they not?

[Chanchipolli]

The important thing to remember is it is government decisions that we ultimately agree or disagree with not what the men and women in the armed forces are doing ... Their jobs.

[judiblackstone]

I hope the shops/residents will all get their Jubilee/Olympic decorations out of mothballs and decorate Northcote Road to within an inch of its life to show our support for these soldiers.

[CBW7779]

I'm not sure how anyone can be expected to discuss this issue with you, Papinian, when you provide no context at all for your story about one alleged incident involving British soldiers, presumably around more than 20 years ago. Having grown up in a country where most families suffered real trauma and violence, and violent events took place on a daily basis, I'm very keen to understand the circumstances you refer to.

[wasateacher]

I think that there is a problem with putting soldiers into heroic status. Soldiers are actually well remunerated for their services - far better than most public servants when housing allowances, etc are taken into account.

The other problem is that, let's face it, there are some who either join the army because they are thugs or become thugs after joining. Celebrating all forces gives a sense of justification and invulnerability to those.

When this subject come up, I think of Iraq. Firstly, it was largely our government which created the situation which led to the atrocities of Saddam Hussein. We conveniently turned a blind eye for our economic and political benefit. Then when we did go in, initially the British solders did well in making links with local communities, etc, in contrast to the high handed tactics of the USA army. However, did we complain when nearly all the contracts went to firms in the USA with a few crumbs to the UK? Did the army act swiftly and decisively when it became apparent that a small group of army personnel were committing torture. These are the ones who threatened the safety of everyone else. The army colluded with the bad behaviour until it was exposed in the media.

So, until the military cleans up its own act, I don't want to celebrate them.

[judiblackstone]

Why has this turned into a political discussion? If you don't want to support our troops then don't. You don't have to watch the parade and you are perfectly entitled to your point of view but, please, don't let's turn this into a political forum.