School Admissions Consultation - Belleville Post Reply

[rcourtney]

The 2nd priority zone is in no way ideal, but it is the best that's on offer. I don't agree with the detail but I do believe that passing the proposal is better than rejecting it. At least it moves us forward. Once established, see how it works and lobby the council to revise it if its not working.

I fear the danger is that we reject the proposal, as per the first proposal, and the council comes back with an even more off the wall suggestion that really doesn't satisfy anyone at all. Or worse gives up and doesn't increase school places in the area.

Looking back you have to think, wouldn't it have just been better to increase the capacity on the main site and let the catchment area stretch as far as possible??!? Everyone should have been happy with that ... but what about the noise and disruption from the works people said ?!? I say a small price to pay for large longer term benefit to future schooling capacity in the area. This is the perfect example of people rejecting a sensible plan that required minimal compromise because they were not willing think about the bigger picture. 'not in my back yard' doesn't get us anywhere.

As previously discussed the current proposal seems to have been cobbled together to satisfy people, but doesn't really wholly satisfy anyone. I think we all agree on that. Its doesn't make a lot of sense. But we are where we are and this proposal is on the table .. like it or not. Are we going to reject every plan until the council fine tweaks its revisions to suit our individual needs? It would never happen. We really would be 'going around in circles' then.

Change is often good ... don't fight it

[Goldhawk]

I have rejected the proposals - I disagree with the GPAs in principle

Using distance from each site separately is the most sensible idea imho

[cynic]

rcourtney

I appreciate much of what you have said and you make a good observation about the history to this plan. I also very much appreciate you are trying to be positive on this.

However one thing that should be remembered is that the council promised this new consultation in response to the nearly 500 objections they received back in June.
Yet they have not proposed the idea of percentage local admission (which was an idea introduced by Cllr Kathy Tracy herself at the July Education Committee meeting, the blindingly obvious fairer solution). We tried to ask about this at the Belleville public meeting and no answer was given, the question was batted aside (easily done as the chair was Cllr Kathy Tracy herself).

Now I don't mean to sound overly negative, but you have placed a lot of faith in the council. A more sceptical suggestion might be that the council (well some councillors at least) are not particularly keen for these new proposals to be actually be supported.

I am not sure even if these proposals were supported whether that would "move us forward" as you say. The council are more likely to say "we already consulted on this so we do not need to again".

You say you are concerned if this proposal is rejected, the council " gives up and doesn't increase school places in the area". Well that's not really an option either as they have a statutory obligation to provide enough school places.

Rather than "fighting change" we are trying to suggest a more positive solution also rather than this consultation just being the end of things

[cynic]

Monaco,

Wix offers distance at end July was 1689m as you noted.
At the public meeting I think Bruce Glocking said it had widened to nearly 2000m.

I am not certain what exact measurement he said or what date that applies to, but I would note that 2000m walking distance from the Wix school encompasses many addresses bounded by Broomwood Rd down to Thurleigh Rd all except those west of Montholme Rd.

just as a point of interest

[cynic]

http://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/forthbridgeschool

[MGMidget]

Hazel15Malwood,

Just to answer your point on roads south of Broomwood and who gets into Honeywell. I think you will find if you check with the school that where you are on the streets you mention - Gayville and Wroughton for example, affects whether you get into Honeywell or not. If you are at the right end of the street you will get in but at the wrong end of the street and its unlikely unless you have a lucky year. I did mention in several postings that I know people who have got offers from Belleville before Honeywell very near me in recent years. I don't know why more people didn't accept places south of Broomwood this time but it could be a coincidence of demographics. Near me I don't know anyone who applied for a reception school place this year, for example. Obviously there is a limited area where a place would be offered (i.e. within the distance limits) that falls outside of Honeywell's distance criteria so maybe there weren't many applicants within that locality. Some may also have chosen to move house or go to a private school if they didn't get school place by a certain date.

Generally to everyone, phew! So many comments its hard to read and respond to everything so forgive me if I don't. I understand the council want us to comment - they provided a big space for comments on the form, so I dare say the council has an opportunity to vary its proposals based on comments too. The closing date is 1 December but they don't expect a conclusion until around April or maybe later so I don't think its necessarily as black and white for them as simply accepting the proposals on the table or rejecting. They did say they would read the comments carefully. Personally I plan to reject the current proposal (i.e. keep things as they are) but will be commenting on what I regard as acceptable.

[MGMidget]

Cynic

Just a point of interest to add to your point of interest on Wix. According to figures I got from Wandsworth Council I am well over 2000m from Wix and I'm not west of Montholme. So I think quite a few people in the area South of Broomwood are still outside of the distance Wix offers reach at a late stage. Unfortunately, while your calculations may say different, it is the distances Wandsworth Council calculate that matter for the offer of a school place.

[rcourtney]

Hi,

http://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/forthbridgeschool

Signed and forwarded to friends ...

[cynic]

MGMidget

Admission authorities (i.e. the council for Belleville) must determine their admission arrangements by 15 April for admissions in the following year.

Now the current consult is not a statutory consult, but it is my understanding that if the council DO decide to change any admissions then they may need to hold a follow-up statutory consult.
It is specified in the Admissions Code that these must be at least 8weeks long and must be completed by 1March

Ergo I think if the council do adopt these proposals then they may need to take that decision by early Jan in order to timetable the statutory procedure.

Indeed this may be why the current consult ends on 1st Dec i.e. has only been set at about 5weeks in length.

(tho I have seen someone make the point that this apparently rushed timing could encourage sceptism about the council's true enthusiaam for these proposals)

[cynic]

MGMidget

on that distance from Wix conversation, I do take your point about it's the official distance
I used Google Map and walking directions and it plotted a route across the paths on the common
I wonder aloud if the council permit those paths under their "well-lit safe streets" rule, do you know?

[herogirl]

petition signed, posted on Facebook and sent to Tim Loughton. Just looking for the best place to "tweet"

[cynic]

As a reminder to all

THE COUNCIL'S CONSULTATION ENDS THIS WEDNESDAY, 1ST DEC

You can respond to the consultation before 1st Dec, in writing to The Consultation Officer, Admission Consultation, Room 90, Town Hall, Wandsworth High Street, London SW18 2PU Or Email primaryexpansionconsultation@wandsworth.gov.uk
Or online www.wandsworth.gov.uk/bsf/consultations



We, a group of residents and parents near to the Forthbridge site, think these complicated proposals are flawed - under them it's very unlikely any child near Forthbridge would ever gain access to the site.
This means they do not adequately address any of the concerns of the 479 objections to the expansion consultation back in June 2010.

We have always supported keeping the site in school-use, and want to make a positive case for a simpler way to ensure access for local children to the Forthbridge site.
To keep this issue alive past this consult we have set-up an online petition:

http://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/forthbridgeschool

Or please email us your thoughts and comments at forthbridgeschoolcampaign@yahoo.co.uk

[cynic]

On the last day of the consult I have just noticed the council have posted the map referred to on the consultation website

http://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/bsf/consultations

This map gives the locations of those admitted to Belleville Primary School for the 2010 - 2011 reception intake as of 15Oct10
Red crosses denote sibling places
Purple crosses denote non-sibling places

[cynic]

For anyone still reading I just spotted 3 key points in this most recent Council Paper on Provision of Places!

Paper 10-846 was presented to the Education Committee on 16Nov10 and
has their most up-to-date projections.
http://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/moderngov/ ... x?ID=12232

Here the map of Planning Areas they use
http://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/moderngov/ ... x?ID=12233

1) Points 28-32 indicate that based on their projections the council
believe the Alderbrook expansion will be sufficient to deal with the small number of places that may possibly be needed in Balham ward (and also in neighbouring Bedford ward in PA4A).
So this is very interesting for the South of Broomwood Rd demand
(certainly in terms of the council's standard approach to estimating it)

2) BUT then for the huge planning area PA5. the paper states:
"PA 5 (Latchmere, Queenstown, St Mary’s Park & Shaftesbury Wards)
33. There is presently an overall surplus in this area, but it is
anticipated that this will reduce in time and there could be pressure
on reception places in 2012/13.
There are large housing developments, including Nine Elms, planned in this area. Potential child yield from these developments are only included in the current projections in respect of early development from around 2016 onwards.
In the longer term, a new primary school is likely to be needed in this area."


3) Appendix 3 actually gives the reception place projections by Planning Area
http://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/moderngov/ ... x?ID=12235

Given the point above on how the council are looking a PA4A and PA4B
together for 2011/12 there's a projected 17 place deficit
BUT that's WITHOUT the Alderbrook expansion. If that goes ahead then once those 30 are added that's:

For PA 4A plus PA 4B:
2011/12: 13 place surplus
2012/13: 2 place deficit
2013/14: 5 place deficit
2014/15: 4 place surplus
2015/16: 14 place surplus
2015/16: 22 place surplus

In PA5 we have these projected numbers:
2011/12: 8 surplus
2012/13: 4 place deficit
2013/14: 14 place deficit
2014/15: 16 place deficit
2015/16: 14 place deficit
2016/17: 15 place deficit

Of course by the time we get there the numbers will be quite
different, but given how much they stand by the projection model I think this is quite outrageous stuff again from the Council, as these current projections i.e. THE COUNCIL'S OWN NUMBERS - actively support a local admission of say 15 places to Forthbridge places phased-in from if not 2012/13, then 2013/14

I am once again at a complete loss to understand why a local admission was not suggested as part of the proposals

[monaco]

Thank you Cynic for getting these documents and sharing them here, it is much apreciated.

For South of Broomwood people, in addition to what you said about Alderbrook meeting those needs, the council document also indicates (point 31):
"Projections indicate that there will be sufficient places in PA4B. The projections take account of the permanent expansion of Belleville School SW11 (Northcote), to 4FE. This has been made possible by utilising a satellite site at the former Vines School in Forthbridge Road, SW11 (Shaftesbury Ward)."

Regarding the projections, I'm afraid that there is some logic to their thinking if you consider P4A alone (ie basically the people living very close to Belleville, not including South of Broomwood), the numbers are quite scary:

11/12 44 deficit
12/13 43 deficit
13/14 38 deficit
14/15 34 deficit
15/16 30 deficit
16/17 26 deficit
17/18 22 deficit
18/19 18 deficit
19/20 14 deficit

I suppose that people living in P4A would be too far to be able to get into the additional places at Alderbrook so it may not be a realistic calculation to combine both P4A and P4B.

What's interesting is that if you combine P4A and P5 for the years 2012 to 2016, you have a scary over 50 places per year minimum that can't be found.