Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?! Post Reply

[JoanHolloway]

One very last comment.
Something I noticed when I spoke to to parents outside the library, is that there is a perception that outside of Northcote, everyone else in the borough has an embarrassment of riches when it comes to secondary schools .

Not so. I live opposite Ashcroft and Elliot is almost 1.5 miles away.
A family living in my area, has the following choices within the borough

Chestnut Grove (Specialist place only, wouldn't get in on distance)
Southfields
Saint Cecillias (As Chestnut Grove)
Elliot
Graveney (Meanwhile, back in the real world......)
Ashcroft

Given that ours is an agnostic household and once you take out the schools with specialist places, that leaves me with the grand total of three schools, one of which was in special measures when we were in the application process.
So that, realistically, leaves me with two.
I'm sure parents all across Wandsworth could tell a similar story.
Therefore, I would agree with other people on this thread, in saying that a thorough analysis of exactly where places are needed across the borough needs to take place, before any new schools, free or otherwise, open.

[equality]

Yummydaddy finds it tiring to explain to us lesser mortals the same thing over and over again. Oh dear, oh dear. Are we not allowed to pose questions and ask questions without being patronised in this way. Is the sort of modus vivendi to be taught at the new school?

[yummydaddy]

Yes, I do get tired if the same questions are being asked/answered over and over again. Nothing to do with "lesser mortals", just read the threat, everything you need to know is in there. And yes, I hope (need to point out I'm not part of the NSC, just an interested parent) that the modus vivendi will be for pupils to do their homework before getting to school

[livegreen]

local union member
GMB Union have as one of their objectives to oppose all free schools (and all academies for that matter). Having read all their recent Press Releases on this subject I would advise all to take with a pinch of salt (their release on catchment areas is totally wrong and their Bankers School release was laughable at best).

equality
It appears that this is your first set of posts here - all of your questions have been asked and answered in this thread. Please do read all previous posts before repeating the same questions in a different format. TYT went down same route as your good self and then moved into familiar loony left rhetoric when the argument he/she put forward was totally proved wrong.

[localunionmember]

The supporters of this school surely recognize that there has been fundamental changes politically and economically since the proposal to reinstate a local secondary school in Battersea south was first mooted. What was mooted then was school as part of the wandsworth school system.

First what is now being proposed is an independent school supported with public funds not a new school as part of the wandsworth community of schools. Many people do not support this proposal for very good reasons that have to be respected if not agreed with. The libdem 2010 conference did not support the proposal so it has the support of a minority of all voters who pay the taxes.

Second the economic and fiscal outlook has changed. Existing Wandsworth schools were within days of getting £300m for repairs and maintenance and rebuilding when the plug was pulled. Parents of children in existing schools have to send them to classrooms that are both cold and damp. It is not an exaggeration to say the Elliot is in a dreadful state of repair. When times are tough the language of priorities kick in. Getting existing schools up to a decent standard has to take priority. Again the majority of voters will agree with that.

It can not be any surprise that this proposal is now very controversial for these two very good reasons. Finding £13m to acquire the site and £20m to turn it into a school and £6m per annum to run it is simply taking bread from the mouths of the other schools who badly need it. What makes things worse is that this is at a time when these schools have enough surplus places. It may not be public knowledge yet but Wandsworth Council are in the process of getting rid of 20 support teaching posts from these schools on the grounds of lack of funds to pay their wages. They are also cutting the terms and conditions of GMB members who provide the home helps and meals on wheels services. Yes it it about who gets scarce resources in these times of austerity.

The leaders of the free school claim to have the support of the head of Battersea park school for excluding pupils from the Winstanley Estate which is much nearer to Bolingbroke than Wix Lane is which is included. This claim has been denied by this head. Resorting to untruths is a poor start to his new career in public life for Mr Maria.

So if the reason given by Mr Maria has been denied what is the reason and basis to exclude kids from the much nearer Winstanley Estate?
Ark who are supporting this school claim to want to support kids from poorer areas like the Winstanley estate.

The income data in the GMB release is from official sources and is true. All the maps of the included and excluded areas are published and the streets listed on the GMB website. So too is the maps with the distances between schools. These are all facts. A cursory knowledge of the areas would lead you to conclude that they confirm the blindingly obvious. You may disagree with the opinions in the GMB release but the facts in re incomes and distances are true and need to be faced up to.

This debate is about how to spend scarce public money. It is also a debate about the future shape of the education system .

GMB is a union with 610,000 members who voluntarily pay money every week for representation and it has grown by 15% over the past years. GMB members with kids in Wandsworth are attending badly maintained schools. You can not expect the union to remain silent in the face of an ideological and fiscal attack on these schools by the Tory party and its voters.

Yes I am a recent poster. I did not expect the Wandsworth Tory party to find £33m to fund this school while allowing Elliot and others to almost fall down for lack of cash.

[localunionmember]

this appears in todays morning star newspaper

Free school 'for the richest'

Friday 07 January 2011
.

School support staff union GMB condemned plans for a free school in south London today after it found that its intake would be made up of the richest pupils in the area while excluding the poorest.

The union said the Battersea school plans drawn up by a group of self-selected parents assisted by "carpet-bagging consultants" include the three wealthiest parts of the area in its catchment.

In those areas residents enjoy household incomes of up to 185 per cent of the London average.

Pupils who come from the poorest area, where household income is 76.2 per cent of the average, would be excluded.

This is despite living closer than their wealthier counterparts to the proposed Bollingbroke Hospital site of the school.

GMB warned that the "self-selecting" group of parents who run the school would enjoy £6 million of taxpayers' money a year to run it, despite there being spare places at existing secondary schools in the borough.

[foureyes]

I don't think the Morning Star is read very much between the commons LOL!!

Seriously, this has to be the biggest waste of money which should go towards funding the schools we already have, which are full of out of borough kids.

[equality]

Livegreen

You call TYT looney because he or she does not agree with you. I have read (can read) the thread (not threat as yummydaddy calls it but the error is laughably ideal). The amount of prevarication, half answers and self interested rhetoric is breathtaking and the offensive posts from people like you who think anyone with a different view is a looney leaves me with a nasty taste in my mouth. I had not realised this site was only to be used by people who agree with you. If that is so, then anyone posting on it is wasting their time as there is no real debate. Frankly, some of the posting on this site leaves me wondering why anyone would want their child to go to a school where the politics of the parents are influenced by reading animal farm! In fact, the posting makes it absolutely clear why this school is a big mistake.

[doleofficedad]

STOP PRESS! Militant trade union disagrees with Tory policy!!! It's not exactly newsworthy is it?

[livegreen]

GMB Union Member

Burntwood School £40 million and Southfields £30 million have been awarded these amounts from Dept Education.
This is a lot of money - are you against rebuilding these schools ?? Would you prefer this was "shared" amoungst all schools in Wandsworth ??

Elliott School has applied for for a substantial mount of money in order to carry out its much needed repairs and rebuilding - this is under review and reading their website they are confident they will receive the money needed.

These are all separate issues to the Free School being proposed at Bolingbroke which is being proposed for all the reasons listed in above thread (fastest growing birthrate over last 10 years, no secondary school in this part of borough, more choice, academic excellence etc etc).

The GMB oppose this (as well as Chestnut Grove moving to Academy Status) purely on idealogical reasons - no base in logic and not because it will impact their members - in fact it will create more jobs !!!

With regard to the GMB Press releases ( I note put together with help of Laura Brown and Jane Eades( from anti-academies alliance) - both commenting on this thread).
The Bankers School story is based on fact that 15-20 people who work in the city opposed plans for the Bolingbroke Hospital to be turned into luxury flats preferring it to remain in Community use (this is out of a total 2500 supporters of the Free School).
The story on catchment areas is also not a true picture..... no-one is being excluded from the school. The aim of the admissions is to create a local school for local children (are you also against this ???) and as pointed out by yummydaddy the distaces of 3 closest schools from where the majority of children come from is clear. Are you and the GMB saying that no children from north of Clapham Junction attend Belleville, High View, Honeywell and Wix ???

I think you also need to understand where funding to refurbish and run the Bolingbroke school will come from - its not the council its the Dept Education. This is the same for all Wandsworth State schools - and the running costs of new school will be on a par with any other.

Apologies but I missed the story in the Morning Star - but assume it is well rounded and they asked for input from Council, Dept Education, ARK and the NSC. Surely they would not base a story on a biased GMB Press Release.......

[equality]

I see livegreen is talking about local schools again. Why is that only important when it suits. There is nothing local about the Belleville expansion, no child living near to the new site has any hope whatsoever of getting a place based on the proposed priority areas. Maybe it is not just the Morning Star that shows bias!!!LOL
Why don't all the parents at Belleville and Honeywell just get together and all agree to apply to Chestnut Grove or Battersea Park? If you can get yourselves organised to fight for a new school, this must be a cinch for you! You would then get what you want legitimately based on current fair admissions policy. A solution to your real problem which is not the lack of school places, it is the lack of places for PLU!

[schoolgatesmum]

I'd just like to point out that admissions policies are in place so that if a school is oversubscribed there is a fair and transparent way to determine which children will attend. By their nature, they will have to exclude some children so you could say that all admissions policies are exclusive. You only have to look at faith schools to see how exclusive their admissions are (I'm sure another thread could start on this one!).

Most of the secondary schools in Wandsworth have some form of selection - be it for Wandsworth test results (e.g. Graveney), specialist places (e.g. CG - 60 out of a total of 150), faith (CofE and Catholic schools), gender (e.g. Burntwood). So already these schools are being exclusive.

The Bolingbroke school is being the most non-selective as far as I can see. It is open to anyone to apply (whatever gender, religion, specialism or academic level that child may have) and will use feeder schools as a priority if it is oversubscribed. My children attend Belleville school. I do not live between the commons (and didn't live there when we applied). My son's best friend lives on the Winstanley Estate. If they attend Bolingbroke they will be local children from the local primary school going to the local secondary school.

If there were an admissions policy on distance alone then wouldn't the same thing happen as has happened with Belleville and Honeywell? - i.e. unless you can afford a house on the doorstep of the schools you can't get in. I have a feeling that whatever admissions policy had been chosen, the antis would have been unhappy as they are fundamentally against the concept of free schools and academies (incidentally, the idea behind academies which came into being under the previous government was for education providers to take over schools which were being failed by the LEA).

[Thankyoutories]

As many of you will realise I was very active in this thread before Xmas but ducked out because of the refusal of the "pro-school" lobby to engage in the debate and also because they were so **** rude.

The essence of the situation is this.

1) there is a local secondary school for the "between the commons" (BTC) kids
2) it is called Chestnut Grove
3) the relevant parents of the BTC kids will not apply for it because they feel it is not good enough.
4) if they did, the BTC kids would get in.
5) these BTC children might displace other potential Chestnut
Grove children who live further away but that would illustrate a need for a school where those kids live, not here for the BTC kids
6) these BTC kids would improve CG as they have done for Belleville and Honeywell
7) however as opposed to going down a community improving route the BTC parents have created a movement to spend scarce capital resources on a hospital to convert it into their own local school

They know this is true.

We know this is true.

Why pretend otherwise.

[Thankyoutories]

By the way, I challenge ANY of the pro-school lobby to politely and calmly argue against the points above.

Don't come back with smoke and mirrors like "the answers are plain to see" and "look at the website".

I've done that and the answers are NOT there.

Don't be rude, don't get worked up, just calmly argue against my logic.

Thank you

TYT

[livegreen]

TYT

Quite simple.

Chestnut Grove has 90 places avaialable on distance. A further 60 are selective and available to anyone.
There are 8 primary schools in and around Balham that are close to CG before one gets to Honeywell School. I think this is a total of 330 pupils from these 8 primaries - but TYT please correct me if it is more or less.

Additionally
90 children leave Honeywell each year
90 rising to 120 leave Belleville
60 leave High View
30 leave Wix
270 rising 300 total from proposed feeder schools.

I make that 330 leaving the primaries around CG followed by another 270 then leaving primaries that are proposed feeder schools to the Bolingbroke.

So lets do some simple maths.

600 primary school children trying to get into their closest secondary school.
8 closer primary schools get priority. So 330 pupils trying to fill 90 places.

If for any reason there are any places left at this stage then, and only then, 270 children leaving the BTC schools may get in.

I think 10-15 per year do actually get in from previous posts (not sure how many are selective places).

Hopefully these simple maths will clear up the issue for you.
Of course it is a little more complicated but this at least illustrates the issue.

NB Chestnut Grove is always oversubscribed and does not have any spare places.