What are other's views on this? Post Reply

[Nanylookingtotemp]

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/o ... nding-kids

it seems lately more and more au pairs are been treated as Nannies on an au pair's salary.

Interesting Article.

Nappy Valley seems to be notorious for this!!

[KatherineHepburn]

What a sad article - also a very interesting point about certain politicians' views on immigration while hiring au pairs, nannies and cleaning staff on low wages from overseas.

[pie81]

The article's a little misleading because it ignores the fact that au pairs are given room and board, which ups their pay significantly.

However I do agree with its criticism of using au pairs as full time nannies, especially for very young children. I've always understood that au pairs are meant to work maximum 25-30 hours a week and not look after under 3s (so eg a mothers help or after school type role). Seems like quite a few people appear to see au pairs as a cheaper nanny though...

[AbbevilleMummy]

I agree that it is very misleading as the article compares the salary of a live-in au pair with that of a very well paid live-out nanny.

It is a shame as there is no need for the article to do this. The hours that they are working, responsibilities they are given and the amount of pocket money the receive is enough of a scandal without overemphasizing the point with misleading comparatives.

My nanny and I constantly hear similar stories. It is extremely common practice, particularly in Nappy Valley.

[Nanylookingtotemp]

Even with their "housing" been paid for it still doesn't
Outweigh the treatment some au pairs receieve.
At least on a Live In Nanny wage you can enjoy a night out,a cinema
Trip etc...I know some au pairs who are working more than 50 hours a week
Not only juggling the children but also the list of chores they are been left to
Complete throughout the day all for between £80-130 a week bearing in mind this money needs to cover phone,travel & a special day/night out.

I know as a live out nanny on a decent salary I still struggle with the cost of
The London Lifestyle!! I guess I just find it very frustrating as some of the Au pairs I know are so good at their jobs and they are been so exploited in so many ways! Can they leave their current host family and manage to rent somewhere to live like myself if I became unhappy in my position...no!! I think au pairs need more protecting and perhaps parents to maybe look at how their
Au pair is doing and been treated! I know there is amazing host families who are giving their au pair the best experience and to them I applaud you!!

[Scottov]

Room & board in chi chi nappy valley is worth a lot of money when calculated as a before tax cash benefit.

Go and check what it costs to rent a room, add bills & food, then adjust for tax & NI

[calgary]

Room & board in chi chi nappy valley is worth a lot of money when calculated as a before tax cash benefit.

Go and check what it costs to rent a room, add bills & food, then adjust for tax & NI

Scottov - you're right it is worth a lot - but a live-in nanny who would get the same benefits would normally earn £7-10 net for similar responsibilities and hours > far more than the £2-3 they're talking about these au pairs earning. I agree with pie81 that au pairs are meant to work maximum 25-30 hours a week and not look after under 3s (so eg a mothers help or after school type role). They are also supposed to be given time to do educational courses during their day - the rationale for why they are there temporarily.

[Scottov]

Room & board in chi chi nappy valley is worth a lot of money when calculated as a before tax cash benefit.

Go and check what it costs to rent a room, add bills & food, then adjust for tax & NI

Scottov - you're right it is worth a lot - but a live-in nanny who would get the same benefits would normally earn £7-10 net for similar responsibilities and hours > far more than the £2-3 they're talking about these au pairs earning. I agree with pie81 that au pairs are meant to work maximum 25-30 hours a week and not look after under 3s (so eg a mothers help or after school type role). They are also supposed to be given time to do educational courses during their day - the rationale for why they are there temporarily.

£10 net after tax per hour, plus board & lodging?

Curious about these calculations.

Room? £600 per month, perhaps more?
Utilities £100 per month, perhaps more?
Food? £150 per month, perhaps more?

Then talk hours, qualifications tax etc
It's not exactly slave labour when you start to put down actual figures

[calgary]

[/quote]

£10 net after tax per hour, plus board & lodging?

Curious about these calculations.

Room? £600 per month, perhaps more?
Utilities £100 per month, perhaps more?
Food? £150 per month, perhaps more?

Then talk hours, qualifications tax etc
It's not exactly slave labour when you start to put down actual figures[/quote]

Yes - as I said before, room & board are worth a lot in SW London. However, I believe the OP was speaking to the discrepancy between wages of these au pairs compared to nannies when the responsibilities look very similar - a point I was trying to make as well. (Live-in nannies do get all that you mention above + £7-10/hr.)

[Scottov]

I guess what I am saying is that these nebulous comparisons don't mean much without real examples, taking into account qualifications, hours, package etc.

Some real examples might shine some light, instead of hearsay and generalisations from the granuiad and OP.

My overall view is that a properly qualified nanny should earn a lot more than an unskilled au pair
And that when the full value of the package is taken account the OP's "friends" are probably being a very, very good wage.

[Sessa84]

Scottov I think you are missing the most important point.
A nanny is a person that studied to be a nanny and can deliver excellent childcare within your home, care for your kids professionally and she is worth a lot!
A family choses to have a nanny and money is not a problem.

If money was a problem or a parent does not understand the difference between levels and quality of childcare, a fake "so called" nanny with no qualifications (and paid cash in hand) or an au pair will come into the picture.

An au pair does not chose where to live. She generally finds a job from her country to improve her English, go to language classes and understand the way of life in England. She should be a very young lady that just finished high school or Uni. You should be her host family and care for her like if she was an extra child.
A nanny is an adult that will take your place in the household in terms of responsabilities once you have gone to work. She pays insurance and she is registered with Ofsted.

If you think that an au pair is kind of a lodger that gets a room in exchange of childcare, good luck.

As a live out nanny I earned £12net per hour in Nappy Valley. I know live in nannies that were paid £7/8net per hour and au pairs that used to be paid £65 per week plus travel card, 1/2 the cost of the language course, food and even shower gel, shampoo and toothpaste. Then I also met this poor young Spanish girl that left the family after two months as she was not allowed to watch tv downstsirs with the parents, she did not eat dinner with them as they used to buy ready made food for themselves only. She was not allowed to use olive oil but only seeds oil to cook and to put in her salad, she was allowed to eat only the sliced bread not the rolls, she could not have the nice jam etc and most of all she was expected to eat toddlers' portions. She was so sad and tearful all the time, poor kid.
Now you think what the parents saved in those two months. And think what the kids that she was looking after benefited from her being there.

[Nanylookingtotemp]

Interesting to see everyone's opinions on this. It comes down to one very simple thing though au pairs are been treated more as a nanny rather than an au pair. Again I stress this is not always the case some au pairs are having great experiences here! below outlines a very good description employment of au pairs!

https://www.gov.uk/au-pairs-employment-law/au-pairs

There are also some nannies who are earning more than they deserve to be! I understand all to well that hiring a nanny is a massive financial hit to a working family. I just think some awareness as to what you are expecting from your au pair is important to note and remembering the fine line between au pair & nanny!! Not all nannies will be qualified or experienced and may have started as an au pair but have great potential as a future nanny/manny maybe asking them if they would like some help in learning towards that!

I guess as a nanny myself i find it upsetting seeing how some au pairs are been treated whilst I see other nannies who don't really want to be a nanny but hey the money is good (something i hear all too often)
I am very lucky to say I love my job and the children I look after whilst also feeling very valued and appreciated by my Families!

[Ruthpackard]

I used nannies for the first 12 years of my children's lives and have used au-pairs for the last 2 years. The reason I did this is because au pairs are fundamentally unskilled but nice girls who want to experience London and are therefore suited to older kids. I did not believe in exploiting the au pair or leaving my precious children in the charge of someone who was neither paid nor possessed the necessary qualifications (and I don't just mean educational) to look after them. It seems to me that those who do are taking a gamble with their kids' welfare and safety, particularly if they are very young. The lines become blurred when smart and capable 20 somethings in depressed economies use the au pair route as a ticket out of desperation and unemployment in their own country, but generally most au pairs are not expecting to work 50 hours a week looking after a 2yr old and a 5yr old . I have heard countless stories of exploited au pairs and find it very disheartening that people who can afford to pay a nanny take this option. The debate about board and lodging is slightly off point - the concept of an au-pair is not a live in nanny role. Live in nannies require proper contracts, employment rights, tax and NI. Anyone on an au pair contract being paid less than 140 pounds a year does not attract tax and NI charges for the employer. I suspect this is why a lot of people exploit au pairs. It is unfortunately starting to build up an atmosphere of mistrust - on the au pair websites I use though it seems that au pairs are wising up and asking much tougher questions of families on their responsibilities and hours. Having chosen our last au pair and after a lot of reassurance that we were not going to exploit her because she had left her previous family after 2 months for that reason (she even spoke at length to our previous au pair to ensure we were not lying ) - she blew us out at the last minute to stay in Spain for safety. If people would just be honest and up front at the outset then au pairs can make an informed choice. Not rocket science really.

[Ruthpackard]

Sorry - fat finger and early morning, I meant 140 pounds a week!

[Scottov]

Scottov I think you are missing the most important point.
A nanny is a person that studied to be a nanny and can deliver excellent childcare within your home, care for your kids professionally and she is worth a lot!
A family choses to have a nanny and money is not a problem.

Given I have pointed out twice that qualifications need to be taken into account I am not sure its fair to say I am missing the important point that qualifications need to be taken into account.

personally, I think the comment that "a family chooses to have a nanny and money is not a problem" to be quite bewildering.

If money was a problem or a parent does not understand the difference between levels and quality of childcare, a fake "so called" nanny with no qualifications (and paid cash in hand) or an au pair will come into the picture.

just as bewildering is the assertion that the above must be true.

An au pair does not chose where to live. She generally finds a job from her country to improve her English, go to language classes and understand the way of life in England. She should be a very young lady that just finished high school or Uni. You should be her host family and care for her like if she was an extra child.

OK. a generalization, but ok.

A nanny is an adult that will take your place in the household in terms of responsabilities once you have gone to work. She pays insurance and she is registered with Ofsted.

again, ok.

If you think that an au pair is kind of a lodger that gets a room in exchange of childcare, good luck.

well, more or less, that isn't so far off the reality now is it?

As a live out nanny I earned £12net per hour in Nappy Valley. I know live in nannies that were paid £7/8net per hour and au pairs that used to be paid £65 per week plus travel card, 1/2 the cost of the language course, food and even shower gel, shampoo and toothpaste. Then I also met this poor young Spanish girl that left the family after two months as she was not allowed to watch tv downstsirs with the parents, she did not eat dinner with them as they used to buy ready made food for themselves only. She was not allowed to use olive oil but only seeds oil to cook and to put in her salad, she was allowed to eat only the sliced bread not the rolls, she could not have the nice jam etc and most of all she was expected to eat toddlers' portions. She was so sad and tearful all the time, poor kid.
Now you think what the parents saved in those two months. And think what the kids that she was looking after benefited from her being there.

I am not sure what good Nanny/Au Pair = good, family = bad, generalization does.

I would note that if you earned £12 net, that is equivalent to £32,500 or so as an annual salary based on 40 hours per week. that is a very, very good salary if true.