Open letter on possible Bolingbroke school Post Reply

[secondtimer]

Surely it is better that the Bollingbroke site gets used for a purpose which serves the local community rather that turned into flats - thus congesting the local area further?

Belleville and Honeywell have no logical secondary school to feed into... (I'm not qualified to comment on the other 2) and no, I don't buy the arguments about using Burntwood or Chestnut - 2 miles is a 4 mile round trip for someone like me without a car and how does that work if you have a younger child still in the primary system???? Plus I have a boy, so thats Burntwood out straight away!

The reason why such a small percentage of children from Northcote ward go to a local school is because there is not a feasible option. I would love my son to move from primary to secondary and keep the friends that he has made, to be able to walk to school and to be able to hang out with school friends afterwards without being car dependent - this simply doesnt happen at present.

I'm fed up of seeing this turned into a middle class/working class or a conservative/labour argument. Thats the bit that seems like propaganda. There are plenty of working class families at both Belleville and Honeywell schools - folks who have lived in their houses for many years and didnt spend 7 figure sums to buy into the area just for the schools sake. People seem to forget that Belleville wasnt always highly thought of and people just used it because it was their local school. There are many families who cant afford the private option and simply want a local school attended by local kids.

[Heavens to Betsy]

The promoters of the Bolingbroke scheme of course have a vested interest in it being a 'feeder school system", as a good number of the families from Bellleville /Honeywell etc. live in Streatham/Tooting and other far flung places. A catchment area school would be a nightmare for them!!

Having secured a place at these schools (by renting locally) they then move out, or back to where they can afford a much bigger property.

The campaigners for anew school all have their own agendas!

[livegreen]

Admissions - this is taken from response to Daily Mirror but explains why Feeder Schools chosen......

The feeder system would make the school more inclusive not less and widen the geographic and demographic group that would get access to places at the new school. Straight line distance (which is used at other Wandsworth schools along with banding and the like) would have excluded all but those in the streets around the school which everyone acknowledges is a middle class area. Feeder schools (as well as being fair and transparent) extend the geographic area that gets access to the school and the demographic mix – given that two of the schools have free school meal entitlement well above the national and London average. Without the feeder school policy most if not ALL of the pupils could come from Honeywell and Belleville or indeed from adjacent private schools. Contrary to being a barrier to working class children the inclusion of Highview and Wix schools gives these children access to pupil places at the new school.
• There are natural boundaries in every community. The feeder schools are part of the south Battersea community, ie. the area where secondary places are scarce and which the new school is expected to serve. Belleville and Honeywell are just 428 and 783 metres from the school site, while Highview is 879m. Falconbrook School (which is 1,642m by shortest walking route) is in north Battersea and already close to a good secondary school (Battersea Park, which is one of the most improved in London). Wix is closer to the Bolingbroke site than it is to Battersea Park school.

[ready2pop]

Yes, I think there will be abuse of the feeder school system in the way PrincessLeia suggests.

This is guaranteed to get me shouted at but, if the Academy turns out to be like Belleville (i.e. not far off being a free private school) then I would certainly consider moving into Northcote briefly to get both my children into one of the feeders before moving back to an area with bigger, cheaper houses.

This will be the natural consequence of concentrating all the 'good' (i.e. middle class pushy) state schools in one area. Northcote already has the best primaries and now it is pushing to get a good secondary too (notice how many people on the other thread about this have justified the need for the new school not on the basis of a shortage of secondary places but on a shortage of decent secondary places).

The housing market is bound to be effected, prices will go up again and the catchment areas of the schools will become ever wealthier and more homogenous.

Is this really a fair use of public funds?

[schoolgatesmum]

I think the idea is that within the children from the feeder schools, the priorisitisatioin will be distance from the school. So if someone has moved into the area, got into Belleville and then moved out, they would then have to move back into the area to guarantee a place at the secondary school. I'm sure there are people who will abuse it but then they are the same people who would do it if it were on distance alone. Any admissions is up for abuse. I think selection at Graveney is unfair. There are loads of people who tutor their children to get into Graveney (and the less local grammar schools). Not everyone can afford a tutor (or wants one - I certainly don't want my children to be doing extra work outside of school). You end up with the situation of people living miles away getting their children into Graveney just because they could afford a great tutor. I'd be seething if I lived close to Graveney.

As an aside, why do you consider Belleville to be "not far off being a free private school?"

[ready2pop]

But if you go on distance alone then people will at least need to live in the area at the time their children would be starting secondary school - the feeder school policy will mean you just need to live in the area at the time your children start school aged 5!

As to Belleville being like a private school - this is how friends of mine whose children are there have described it to me. My impression is that it is predominantly attended by relatively wealthy, middle class children ( I know from what others have said on here that this is not true of all the pupils) whose parents are interested in their education and pushy about it. Certainly, I know several people who have told me that if their children hadn't got places at Belleville they would have educated them privately rather than attended other local state schools.

[schoolgatesmum]

If the secondary school is oversubscribed, you would still need to live in the area at secondary school age as well. The prioritisation for children at feeder schools is distance based as well so if it's oversubscribed the children at the feeder schools who live the closest will get in. So if you've moved out to Streatham or wherever, you'll be at the end of the list and not guaranteed a place. And if it's undersubscribed then whoever applies will get in.

I have 3 children at Belleville and I wouldn't describe it as a free private school - I would describe it as an outstanding comprehensive state primary school. My eldest is in Y4 and the catchment was a lot larger then. The mix of children is vast - from children with parents who are barristers to children with parents who are dustbin men. There has certainly been a change in demographics as you go through the school. My youngest is in reception and it is much less diverse than higher up the school - but way more diverse than any private school!

[ready2pop]

My understanding was that if the school is oversubscribed then children at the feeder schools get priority, if there are places left over after them then it goes on straight line distance.

If there are more children coming from the feeder schools than there are places then they are ranked by distance but you'd still have a better shot if you lived in Streatham say but went to one of the feeder schools than if you lived on Bolingbroke grove itself but went to a non-feeder school.

(PS - Streathamites are actually fairly unlikely to need to try and wangle the system for secondary schools as they have Dunraven which does even better than Graveney).

[Baronarnaud]

I happened upon this website by chance and have been following with interest (on and off) the debate over the proposed Ark/ Free school on the Bolingbroke Hospital site. Managing the transfer from primary to secondary school, and finding a school that you are happy with, has to be one of the most stressful experiences that we will go through as parents. Every parent wants to make the best choice for the their children – except of course, that, actually, we don't have a choice – only the right to state a preference.

My biggest fear regarding this proposed new school is that it will take funding away from the existing secondary schools, most of whom are now struggling with the aftermath of the loss of the BSF funding. Other than this (rather big) worry, I have no objection and no axe to grind.

I have three children who are now all at Chestnut Grove – and I have read (with some pique!) that Chestnut Grove is not considered a viable option by some - and I'm not talking about the distance.
I would like to say a few things about my own personal experience of this school and possibly put the record straight on a few issues.
I have personally encountered many parents who would not contemplate sending their children to Chestnut Grove because of its past reputation, and also, because its results are not as good as Graveney's. But it should be emphasised that Graveney is a selective school and Chestnut Grove is not, and therefore this is not a fair comparison. And if I understand correctly, this new school will not be selecting on ability, in which case, its results are not likely to be on a par with Graveney's either.

It takes a long time for a school to overcome a poor reputation (even after an Outstanding Ofsted Report!) but Chestnut Grove is working hard to do just that. The school regularly collaborates with local primaries on Arts projects, has given Spanish lessons to local primary school pupils and invited primary classes in to watch end of term productions. Work by Arts Specialist students (Chestnut Grove has a fantastic Art Department) is on display in Balham Library. The fact that that the school is situated right in the heart of Balham has been a big disadvantage. Every day at 3pm local residents see a large group of lively, noisy teenagers (many of whom are black) spilling out onto the street …..... and think the worst. But if you were to go and stand outside Graveney at chucking out time, you wouldn't see a lot different.

My children are all very happy at Chestnut Grove and doing well. We have had no problems with bullying. Friends who have say that any problems were dealt with swiftly.
I have found the staff to be enthusiastic, hard-working, dedicated and approachable.
It is a small school compared with other secondaries in the borough – small and friendly – which is why we like it.
The head, the staff and governors have used the budget wisely in employing extra teachers in order to keep class sizes small.
If Chestnut Grove loses funding as a result of this new school development, fewer teachers will be employed, class sizes will increase and standards will drop.
I have every sympathy for parents wishing to do their best for their children and I have no objection to the creation of a new, 'free' school, but only ask that it is not at the expense of other schools in the borough who are struggling to improve.

[livegreen]

The proposed free school will take no money from any existing schools.

Is it correct that Chestnut Grove will also be moving to Academy status in the near future. Will this enable them to emphasise the academic side of things more ?

Have Chestnut Grove exam results continued to rise ?? (I do not mean the Eng Bacc but 5 GCSEs including Eng and Maths).

What I do not understand is why Balham parents do not choose Chestnut Grove as their 1st choice - it is well located and close by high performing primary schools Ravenstone, Henry Cavendish, Alderbrook etc

Everyone keeps saying it is outstanding so why do local Balham parents not choose it ??

[ready2pop]

Just a thought but thinking of Dunraven in lambeth made me wonder whether adopting a 'fair banding' entry system like they use might solve the arguments about the new school - it would certainly put paid to the argument that it is intended to just be middle class.

Basically all children applying sit a test and are then divided into 5 (O think) ability groups. The number of available places are then divided equally across these ability groups with priority between children of the same ability being calculated by distance to the school.

This has stopped Dunraven having the problems that Graveney, or Belleville at primary level, has with people moving nearby to get their child in. If the area becomes more gentrified as a result of people trying to get into the school then the catchment area for the lower achieving bands remains unaffected.

Wouldn't this deal with most of the objections being levelled at the BA plan?

[Virgil Tibbs]

Using banding, you could end up with the scenario where one child got in but his best mate/neighbour next door did not get in. Also the very odd concept of parents tutoring their children to fail the test? Or is that way too cynical?

[ready2pop]

I suspect that the banding system dissuades people from this sort of thing mainly by the very fact that it keeps the school socially, academically and enthnically diverse. Hence why depsite Graveney and Dunraven being just at opposite sides of Streatham really,everyone wants to get their child into Graveney whereas Dunraven is hardly mentioned.

The sad reality is that people (myself included) don't just want their children to go to schools that do well academically they also want them to be surrounded by children from similar backgrounds.

That is why Belleville has become so oversubscribed and why the new school will be too. It is hardly surprising that people who don't have the money to buy their way into these schools via the property market are upset about it.

[livegreen]

Readytopop

I think you will find that most people want a school to be academically excellent as a first point, this is why Graveney is the school of choice for the majority of parents in Wandsworth.

[ready2pop]

Of course - what I said is that academic excellence isn't all that people are looking for.

I'm not knocking Graveney at all either - it's our nearest school.