Beggars on St John's Road - feels like Groundhog Day Post Reply

[NVHusband]

I have recently moved to BTC and wanted to know if this issue has been raised before.
Over the last 3 months, I have noticed the same beggars in the same place begging every evening on my way home from work:

1. Young lady at the exit of CJ station, south side;
2. Bearded man with dog outside Halifax on Lavender Rise
3. Young man outside Clintons on St Johns Road
4. Bearded man opposite Waitrose on St Johns Rd
5. Bearded man next to Natwest on St Johns Rd
6. Bearded man next to Rubies/ Nationwide on St Johns Rd

Having lived in Islington for sometime, I am used to the good and bad of city living, but I was surprised by the number of beggars over such a short distance. They have effectively "put up shop".

Since begging is illegal and looks like the Council or police haven't moved them on, I have written to my local MP and hopefully this gets some traction.

Is there another forum/ avenue I could complain to see to it that the council do their job?

I am conscious that the area around CJ has struggled to regenerate, but I fear it will always be avoided unless the council clean up their act.

[NVHusband]

Apologies- # 6 is meant to be Roxies/ Nationwide on St Johns Rd

[AbbevilleMummy]

Oh my, can you hear yourself? Does it ruin your stroll back to your warm, safe million pound home to walk past these people? How unfortunate for you. You really must do something about it at once to get them cleared from your path, further south I should imagine. Then finally the area might regenerate to the levels of your beloved Islington and you can make even more money on the value of your home.

Perhaps they have 'put up shop' there because they don't have a lovely warm home to go to? Just a thought.

I too walk home past them and unlike you, I feel for them and how horrible it must be for them to be sat out there on a freezing night like tonight. Or any night for that matter. Sometimes I buy them a cup of tea or a sandwich. Sometimes I don't have time and feel guilty about that and just give them some cash. Every time I feel how lucky I am. That it is a very easy slippery slope to become like them and one that is near to impossible to claw your way out of.

[Elsa09]

I used to work for a charity that re homed many homeless people arround London. The most frustrating thing about my job, was how many people refused help, did not take up a bed that they were offered, having received a bed from a waiting list would sit on the streets anyway.
I have been in direct contact with the police about the young man outside Waitrose and the man with the dog.
Both have beds at local charities but choose not to take them up which is very frustrating as there are waiting lists and they are stopping someone more vulnerable from taking their place. The young man has several metal health/drug issues and the man with the dog won't take up his place because where he is they don't allow dogs. Several homeless people have dogs for two reasons, to get more money from the sympathetic public or for protection. You can't argue protection as a reason as he does effectively have a place to stay.
Sadly the reason 90 per cent of the time, they beg to get money for dink/drugs. This is a whole other debate, but I beleive that giving them money stops them needing recovery. Don't be under an allusion that your £2 will stop them also doing other things for money. It's an expensive habit.
And yes begging is illegal. Sitting there is not, asking for money is.
So is intimidation and I have been followed for 5 minutes one time by the young man ranting at me for cash, clearly off his head. Not a pleasant experience.
It is a big issue that like a previous poster mentioned, takes up huge police resources and time and is a constant battle. Word travels fast and if the lovely people of SW11 keep giving them money then more will come. I'm not saying become a cold un-giving person, but please do be aware of why they beg and that charities daily give food and shelter to vulnerable homeless people and many refuse their help.
My advice would be to give food/water even tampons instead of money. But unfortunately and very sadly this will always be an issue in London. And actualy the more affluent an area becomes the more you will see.

[hellokittyerw]

Definitely agree with you, Elsa09!
To my knowledge a lot of beggars have drugs/alcohol problems, so giving money is a bad idea (it will only feed the addiction), please give food/water/coffee instead.

AbbevilleMummy, as Elsa09 explains very well, this is a complex issue, i'm sure you are very well intentioned however giving them cash is not the sensible solution...Better to donate that cash to a local charity helping the homeless?
I think that the area would be a little bit safer without the beggars there, so if the police could do something i would welcome it.
Yes, it's easy slippery slope to become like them, but it's fuelled by addiction, not by the lack of help available.

[supergirl]

Very often homeless people do not find the shelters very safe. There are a lot of theft, fights, etc and would then rather sleep rough.
Yes giving them money is not necessarily the right thing to do but attitudes that says let's complain and get them move is very clearly not the right thing to do as well.
Solving the issue is the only way. How about volunteering unless you think there is better use of police time? I d rather they are on the streets, estates, etc to keep this area as safe as possible.

Our society in general (and possibly this area in particular as it is very gentrify) is more and more selfish and I hate it.

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/ ... chitecture

Maybe we don't see it enough to be sure it exists but there are a lot of people and children really struggling all across the UK since this government has come to power. It is very sad.

[supergirl]

I meant the police being on the streets not in the police station interrogating homeless people

[Claire M]

I agree that it's a terribly complex issue. I think mental health issues and addiction issues play a large part. Also some of the shelters can be intimidating for some people. At the Ace of clubs shop you can buy a voucher to hand over which entitles them to a meal at the Ace of clubs shelter on St.alphonsus road though this is not always easy to communicate. They can also have a shower and change of clothes. A drop in the ocean really when your life is so difficult.

Claire

[NYE31]

V.complex issue but to be clear, people including children have been struggling since time began, across the world & not just in the UK, not just since the current Government came into power!

[NVHusband]

Thanks all forthe feedback.
Abbevillemummy, I think you went off-piste in your comment about my own personal circumstance.
What I tried to highlight, was not that there was begging in CJ , but that there were the same beggars, sitting in the same place every night and that this has been a consistent theme for sometime.

Elsa09- thank you for providing more insight. It does highlight the complexity around this issue.

I agree that giving them cash encourages them to continue begging. But also (on my part), simply highlighting (a known) issue also doesn't solve the problem!

The article below has highlighted some of the problems already mentioned and also provides some solutions. I am happy to help contribute.

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news ... n/?ref=rss

[somemum]

I think the idea of buying vouchers from the Ace of Clubs shop is great - I for one did not know that was possible and I've lived here for 8 years. Could you possibly highlight this Annabel? It might encourage the vulnerable to go to the shelter where they might be able to get some help. Even if they do not use the vouchers, all you've done is give money to the Ace of Clubs charity. Why not buy some vouchers and keep them in your bag ready to give when necessary? Thanks for all the knowledgeable advice given on this post, as I've felt sorry for them and given money before.

[ally30_1998]

There is a website called Streetlink: http://www.streetlink.org.uk/
where you can notify them of the location of a rough sleeper and the times of day that the person is there so that they can go and offer help.
It also has a listing where outcomes are shown.
As other posters have said, this is a complex issue and of course it has become worse around our area. No big surprises there considering the effects of government housing benefit/general benefit reforms. If I was begging on the street then I'd probably head for areas of conspicuous consumption, based on the logic that people have more to give (although of course opposite tends to be true).
I agree that giving cash is a big problem as it just pays for drugs and alc.
The suggestion to buy a meal voucher from Ace of Clubs is a brilliant one and I will be doing that myself from now on.

[annabelsarcadenl]

AbbevilleMummy, you have no right to try and make the poster of this thread (NVHusband) feel guilty. Like it or not street begging and homelessness is undesirable and nobody want's it on their doorstep.
Should you wish to share your wealth that is your prerogative, but it doesn't give you the right to impose your misguided approach on the others in this forum. It is precisely because of your misplaced charity towards your people that they remain day after day, you are supporting their presence, most likely against the wishes of most residents!

Oh my, can you hear yourself? Does it ruin your stroll back to your warm, safe million pound home to walk past these people? How unfortunate for you. You really must do something about it at once to get them cleared from your path, further south I should imagine. Then finally the area might regenerate to the levels of your beloved Islington and you can make even more money on the value of your home.

Perhaps they have 'put up shop' there because they don't have a lovely warm home to go to? Just a thought.

I too walk home past them and unlike you, I feel for them and how horrible it must be for them to be sat out there on a freezing night like tonight. Or any night for that matter. Sometimes I buy them a cup of tea or a sandwich. Sometimes I don't have time and feel guilty about that and just give them some cash. Every time I feel how lucky I am. That it is a very easy slippery slope to become like them and one that is near to impossible to claw your way out of.

[Furzedown Dad]

AbbevilleMummy, you have no right to try and make the poster of this thread (NVHusband) feel guilty. Like it or not street begging and homelessness is undesirable and nobody want's it on their doorstep.
Should you wish to share your wealth that is your prerogative, but it doesn't give you the right to impose your misguided approach on the others in this forum. It is precisely because of your misplaced charity towards your people that they remain day after day, you are supporting their presence, most likely against the wishes of most residents!

She's not imposing anything on anyone though, is she? She's giving her opinion, same as you. Unless of course you meant that she shouldn't be allowed to do that on an internet chat forum.

I had no idea that beggars continue to beg because of "misplaced charity", though, so thanks for that part of the lecture. I honestly thought it had more to do with, you know, not having a home or any money. Or maybe drug or alcohol addiction, mental illness, inability to get a job, social inequality generally or any one of a number of other causes. It's good to know that we should be focussing our ire on the people that give them cups of tea and the occasional couple of quid instead worrying about the wider issues at play.

"Most likely" the vast majority of people who object to begging and beggars have never given a single penny to Shelter or Crisis or similar organisations, or volunteered a single moment of their time to help those kinds of causes. Things would change a lot more quickly if they did.

[NVMumof2]

I have come across another very good charity working hard to resolve these issues on our doorstep - http://www.thamesreach.org.uk. They work with Streetlink (mentioned in an earlier post) and are grateful for contributions of time and/or funds.