Men and women sharing chores Post Reply

[Toddy]

Dear NVNs,

I'm after your views, both male and female on how couples agree the sharing of chores and the use of money/income in arguments about this. Apologies in advance if the below is rather long.

For the last 18 months my other half has been starting up a business and has not had an income. In the same period I went from working 4 days a week in a stressful consultancy job to full time contracting for 9 months in the last year to support us. In the last 4 months I've become a stay at home parent to balance our work and home life.
Our 4 year old used to attend a private day nursery 3 days a week and we shared pick ups and drop offs. When I was full time my other half did pick up and drop offs, looked after her on the days I was working and made us M&S oven dinners on weekdays, whilst working on the start up. We had a cleaner back then. We've now moved out of London and our child is going to a state nursery which we were able to get half days and 2 full days a week. For a while neither of us have had an income as the money from my contracting has been used up (mortgage, bills etc). We're living on savings now and luckily we're both good savers rather than spenders. In a little while we'll have a rental income from our flat. We're soon to put a date against which the business needs to be successful or else we/he goes back to getting a job - naturally this is adding to our stress!

We're not getting a cleaner here, I'm doing the cleaning and laundry, food shopping and looking after our daughter when she's not in nursery and most of the weekend if he's working. I want to share cooking a little more, cleaning just a little more and drops off.

He would like to not have to do cleaning and cooking and concentrate on the business earning money. He does love to spend time with our daughter and this is ad hoc. I've supported the business priority view but now feel exhausted.

He says that I need to take into account the options we've had open to us due to his continual study which has increased his earning potential, the earnings he's achieved which have bought the previous flat and enabled us to move to a 4 bed rental house with rental offset against mortgage.

I can appreciate that household stuff is a lower priority to getting to a business that earns money (and it is a fantastic start-up for which there is nothing else in the market). I can't help but feel that his default of little cooking till pushed (used to live on cereal and take-away), not cleaning (historically his flatmates did most of this), isn't fair. I accept that I want things more exact than he does and perhaps that pushes me to tire myself out.

My friends are appalled at the money argument. I object to the money angle, but at the same time I guess he has created opportunities which we are all getting benefit from.

Sorry for the really long explanation.
Do the breadwinners in couples feel that money is a justifiable point to make?
Do the stay at home parents feel taken for granted?
Or are there really good housework sharers out there?!!

Thanks!

[cocomama]

Hi Toddy,
This sounds really tough.
I can only speak from my own experience and tell you how it works for us.
We have 2 children, one at nursery (mornings only) and one under two years so at home with us.
I don't think who earns the most should be a factor in who does what at home but rather who (genuinely!) has more 'spare' time.

My partner and I are both self employed and he earns significantly more than I do but he does more of the housework than me.
And depending on how much work I have he also does some of the childcare- afternoons here and there. And I do most of my work once the children are in bed- usually until 12am!

I'm know he would prefer to do less housework though! (we're planning on getting a cleaner- if anyone has a good recommendation in Tooting Bec!)
But we make it work by sharing our diary and meeting invites etc on our phones so we both know who is out and when.
We both have to be really flexible and yes, if his work overlaps mine- his would take priority because he earns so much more.

It is hard when working from home/self employed because you do constantly have emails and calls to answer but running a Hoover round between emails and putting a load of washing on can be done - my OH proves that! Yes I am very lucky I know!

Hope you come to a happy medium Toddy!

[AnotherMummy]

Hi Toddy,

This is quite an interesting topic – sharing of chores between men and women... We are in a similar-ish situation; I work full time and my husband is self-employed; working part-time during the week and most week-ends. I earn more currently and this is likely to stay as it is until his business properly takes off. When he left his job, we had a conversation on how best to approach the situation. However we did not base our arrangements on earnings. We have children at school full time and one at nursery part time. We decided to share equally as much as possible; we share the school runs, we share the cooking, shopping and cleaning. He looks after the little one part-time. I cover the week-ends when he works. We make sure we both get time to exercise or meet up with friends.

It is not easy because it means I get to work full time in the week plus I am on my own with the kids most week-ends. He also complains that he needs more time to work on his business. It’s not perfect for either of us but that’s what we agree work best for us as a family. Also our kids get to see Mummy and Daddy helping each other instead of Mummy is Daddy’s slave or vice-versa. So far my kids have never turned to me or my husband saying “You earn less money so you get to do the cooking and spend time with us...”

I look around us and a lot of my female friends who work full-time, part-time or are self employed (even some I know that are the main breadwinners) still get to do most of the “night shift”, cooking, cleaning, drop of/pick up and also looking after the kids when hubby goes to football/rugby/cycling in the week end. Some of my friends, stay-at-home mums, cover most of the chores and feel they don’t get enough support or appreciation for what they do. I often hear from others that my husband is very lucky and if it was the reversed situation I would not get half as much help...I am not so sure, even when I was on maternity leave and he was working full time we were sharing the chores.

I am not sure this has been any help. Maybe sit down with your husband and agree a set time in the week when he switches of his mobile, shuts down the PC and gets on doing something that will help the family?

All the best!

[ally30_1998]

I agree that chore sharing should be based on time available and not on who earns the most.
It is very difficult when you are raising young children as they are exhausting and you are under constant pressure yourselves

If you are both earning and resenting the time you have to spend on chores, why not hire a cleaner? Even if they just did 5 hours a week, hoovering and cleaning baths and toilets etc and that cost you £50, it's money well spent and means both of you can use that time doing something else (even if that means you get more time divide chores like putting a wash on/putting clothes away/doing the rubbish/etc/etc

To anyone that says they can't afford it, I say, examine your priorities and what's important to you.

After 10 years of single parenting an Autistic child, part-time working and studying on not much money, my back finally gave up and after 6 weeks I broke and hired a cleaner (really didn't want to do it as it felt wrong somehow). Without doubt it was the best decision I made for my health and sanity.

[Toddy]

Hi All,

Thanks for your thoughts and advice on this. The range of arrangements is interesting and I guess if it works for people, that’s the main thing.

I’ve got the same view, cocomama, AnotherMummy and ally30_1998, that it’s not about an arrangement based on earnings. Sharing based on time available and priorities or on an equal footing when you’re both earning seems fair. That indicates that I should be the one picking up all the household and childcare activities. I have a problem with this for two reasons: firstly because historically he has done very little in the past, even before me, so this is him defending his normal pattern of behavior; secondly because at the moment it is so little. Imagine small insignificant stuff that if your kids did it, you’d be saying who do you think is going to do that! Anyway before I gripe on..!

I would love to get a cleaner as this stopped a lot of the arguments in our life before children. We are living on savings which will run out in a few months and so £30-50 a week is a high monthly outgoing when all other essentials come out on direct debit! The one way I could see this is that it’s a lot less than couples couselling!

One final insult is I’ve just been told I need to buy a car as I’m using one he paid for and I’ve benefited from for years! TBH I do appreciate that he has accrued more through hard graft of the paying kind, so I replied that I would have loved more notice through gritted teeth!!

[ally30_1998]

"One final insult is I’ve just been told I need to buy a car as I’m using one he paid for and I’ve benefited from for years! TBH I do appreciate that he has accrued more through hard graft of the paying kind, so I replied that I would have loved more notice through gritted teeth!! "

Sounds like there is more going on here....
Quite possibly, he is jealous that you are SAHM and does not see the work you do as having any value.
Actually, you might be better off spending that £50 on some counselling.

[Toddy]

Hi ally_301998, I believe very much in counselling and we've had a good stint of that when our daughter was under a year old due to similar issues funnily enough. It helped in improving the way we communicated with each other, realising what else was going on in our heads and helping with some compromise. I think this is about two people under different but strong external and introspective pressures bringing out various behaviours.
I have tried proposing what I think would help e.g. one meal in the week and one at the weekend, a drop off and pick up. It will take a little time to work through our views and reach a comfortable compromise for both. (We've previously agreed I'm going to be helping out with some aspects of his business for as long as we get on!).
I admire that you've managed to juggle all your plates, being a single parent. I have a lot of friends in a similar position. Thanks again for sharing your stories and advice!

[Thecouplescoach]

Hi Toddy
I'm a couples coach and see similar issues often cropping up with my clients. There is no right or wrong way to split chores in a relationship as each couple is unique. In coaching we talk about 'roles'. There are many roles, usually unrecognised, in relationships including who earns the income, who is the primary carer to kids, who buys the food, who takes the bin out etc. Also less obvious ones such as who brings up any issues the relationship is having.
The thing with roles is that usually we fall into our particular roles in the relationship without really designing it and this can lead to 'role nausea' and 'role fatigue' where we get fed up of being the one who is expected to always fulfil that role etc. It sounds like some of that is going on here.
In addition your relationship is under some stress financially and when stress appears it is also when any problems tend to come to the surface.
While couples coaching can certainly help with all of this it sounds like it may not be an option right now financially (although I do offer a free sample session which you are welcome to try out http://www.thecouplescoach.co.uk), so you need to find another way through this.
One option might be to acknowledge that you both dislike chores and look for how you can be aligned about them and feel more of a team. It sounds as if the tension around chores / finances is causing other unhelpful behaviours between you and not helping the relationship. I would suggest starting from a place of what you want for your relaionship, what's important to you both and how you want to be together. Try to do this in a non-critical way asking for what you want rather than complaining about what's not there right now. Really hear what your partner wants too.
From there you could look at what your relaionship needs to help it thrive eg time together.
Finally perhaps you could together list out all of the chores and see if there is a split that will work better.
Good luck to you both and I hope you can find a way through it.
Sue x

[Lansgrim]

This is a very tough one. When my husband and I both worked full-time we shared the chores 50-50, even though he earned far more than me. When I went on maternity leave with our second I happily accepted to do all the household chores - cooking, cleaning, shopping, washing-up, administrative tasks etc, as I was bringing no money in and had time on my hands to do it, despite having a newborn and a (then) 6 year old. Then I started working for myself (from home), and he set up his own business, and we also had to live on savings to get his business off the ground. As I was now back working again we agreed that we would share the chores again, despite neither of us having much time and money being tight.

We sat down and listed every single chore and each said which ones we'd rather do, before coming to a happy compromise of who does what.

We both agreed that when I was on maternity leave, and then for a while a SAHM, that I would do everything in the house as I wanted him to spend his non-working hours with the kids rather than doing chores. But it sounds like there's more going on here with you. In which case I would highly recommend reading The 5 love languages, it has made an enormous difference to our relationship, and has saved a friend's marriage that was firmly on the road to divorce!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/5-Love-Language ... es+of+love
Good luck!

[szczepam]

My husband and I have a similar situation to Lansgrim. We both work full time try and share the chores and child care equally. As we work a lot we have a lot of help - full time nanny and cleaner - but it is still a tricky balance between someone getting home to relieve the nanny, spending that extra special half hour with our DS before bed time and getting something cooking on the hob. My job is transactional meaning that some parts of the year I am away a lot and he is basically a single parent. Then when the transaction is over I am typically more 9-5 and can work for home, etc. when things aren't busy. He works long hours but works a steady 7am - 7pm. I believe the sharing of chores makes me feel like we are really in this together and have a true partnership of a marriage and it really is a situation where the person that has the more time picks up the slack. As for money, we bring home similar base salaries but our total take home pay (ie bonuses) can vary a lot.

[GardenRosie]

Hmmmn tricky

My husband and I are both self employed and have a four year old and one on the way

I work 9-3 when daughter is at school, then collect her and do a lot of chores with her (food shopping, taking stuff to dry cleaner, getting car serviced, paying bills etc) then when she is in bed I work 7pm-11pm. I do all the school runs.

Husband works 7am-7pm (and often later) and earns a stack more than me.

We have a cleaner once a week and split everything else based on who is more available - if I have a tight deadline he does it, and vice versa. I manage the household budgets because I am better at it, and he does the ironing because he is better at it. I do the majority of the 'drudge' because I am more available... ie I have a small child with me so am not earning any money and may as well.

We've never discussed whose role is which but every decision is down to money - not who earns more, but who has the potential to bring more in during that particular hour...

Of course at 9pm when he is on the sofa relaxing I am still taking the bins out so I don't think we have it quite right... but another view might be useful!

x

PS I have never worked such long hours in my life as now, when I am self employed.

[AbbevilleMummy]

We both work full time in high-pressured jobs with long hours in the city so we kind of do half and half but we regularly bicker about the other one not pulling their weight when we're tired. We have a full time live in nanny and a housekeeper so most of it is done for us but we still argue about it when we're tired and stressed. I'm only saying that to reassure you that it's probably an argument that all couples have from time to time regardless of their circumstances as it's such an easy argument to end up in.

When I was on mat leave and so not working I did all the household chores and admin. Although totally dull and with 2 kids, totally draining, but at the end of the day I had no reason not to as I was the one around all the time.

The car comment surprises me, as does the constant reference to who has earned what to get you to where you are now as a couple. A personal question maybe, but are you married? I ask this because his comments don't sound like you are. Either that or he hasn't accepted that you are married! When you're married, it is completely irrelevant who has earned what and who paid for the car etc. Everything is owned 50/50. If I was a SAHM and my husband said that to me I would have said "Lovely, go buy me one!"

[Toddy]

Hi Thecouplescoach,

Thanks for your advice. I'm sure there is 'role nausea' going on and we do need to think jointly about how we meet in the middle and share these things, especially as having your own business will mean he will still be working long hours once it's in full swing. I can think of lots of positive ways to make small changes e.g. we do an hour cleaning together with our daughter who is so keen! Let's see what he says. He likes free flow rather than structure so I can suggest it's not at a set time etc. Tho' can then be tricky to implement.

I hear him, we talk often. Things he's asked for that I can agree to are to stop pointing out the small things...'you haven't done this', 'can you please do that' and trust they will be done (as I look at the dirty rags on the washing line which have been there a week since he cleaned his bike). I will have a go at demonstrating it is possible!

I may be able to list out the chores for sharing - he doesn't agree with the micromanagement of it.

Hi Lansgrim - I would love to do that - making the list of chores. I may ask for that as my one main item in a positive conversation about how to make things better. At least it will demonstrate how much is involved and how easy it is to share a little! I had a quick look on Amazon at that book you recommended. I do believe language and the feel of a conversation is key having been through lots of discussions about how tense and annoyed I sound when talking to him. Am thinking about ordering it - the description doesn't give much away!

Hi szczepam,
I can imagine that sharing the chores will make me at least feel a lot better about it and closer. I'm glad you've got a good system that works for both! I also need to share the stuff that he does more of and have made inroads on that, e.g. managing bills and getting our rental set up.

Hi Petal,

Yes that discussion still really upsets me. My mum has often said people should take great care not to say things in arguments that they can't take back and this is one of them - surprisingly only one of two in our 9 years together! He's apologised but it still rankles. There is often a lot of us taking our own sides - the challenge will be how to bring it together or continually appreciate the different things we're well suited to.

Hi GardenRosie,
I can see that being self-employed makes you exponentially busy as you generate more and more things to sort out. Well done finding your balance! He is still working at 9 at night while I'm taking the bins out. That may be part of the problem, having a lack of expectations on our together time...

Hi AbbeyvilleMummy,
It's reassuring to know it's a normal couples thing - of course if doesn't look like that in public and looks very happy families in Nappyvalley!
We're partners rather than married.
I know I also thought that money and who earns it was off limits!! What the discussion helped me see was that his early sacrifice up front in studying and directing his career before we had a child plus I have not been ambitious to drive earning potential, has given us advantages which mean we do now have the option for one of us to stay at home. Still of course I have been productive and not just twiddling my thumbs for 10 years.

Anyway..must plough on and make lunch!

[Lansgrim]

It sounds like this discussion has helped you which is great

As for that book, it's not really about language, but it explains we all have our own "language of love", so for example one person might express love by buying gifts, another person might express it by doing small acts of kindness (taking the bins out etc), and that if your "language" is small acts of kindness but your husband's is buying gifts you can end up resenting the other person as they're not "speaking your language" (i.e. you want him to take the bins out but he thinks he's showing you love by buying you flowers which you don't care about). It's such an interesting book and I would say is a must to anyone in a long-term relationship.