Question about a nanny who wants to work 2nd job part time Post Reply

[SWLondonDad]

Hi,

I was wondering if I could get peoples thoughts on something. My wife and I have differing views on this so would be interesting to see what other people think?

We have a live in nanny who works 3 days a week with us. She's been with us about a month.

She said last night she wasn't to go down to the local high street and see if she can get a bar job for 3 of the days she's not working with us.

I don't want to describe either of our views to this, as I'd rather just hear what people think. If anyone has a nanny who does this (or has had one), I'd be very keen to hear how it's worked out.

Also would be nice to know how common or uncommon this is

[papinian]

Your nanny works for you three days a week. Unless you pay her significant better than the going rate for nannies in this part of London, 3 days pay isn't going to be a lot of money.

Your nanny is planning to do bar work on three of the days on which she doesn't work for you. I don't see what issue that is for you. My only concern would be if she is working really late on the nights before she works for you and she's doing it at less than full throttle. Having said that, if she weren't working, it could be that she is going out clubbing on the nights before she works for you - and that would have the same effect.

Personally, I'd rather have a nanny working for me who is hard-working and has a bit of initiative rather someone who is happy to work for three days' pay (topped up with tax credits?).

[papinian]

I now see from the advertisement that you posted on this site for a nanny that you are paying £180 net for 33 hours of work plus one evening babysitting - say 37 hours.

National minimum wage is £6.50 per hour which gives £240 a week. Where someone has accommodation provided as part of their role then you can take away £35.56. That's £204.46. So you're paying £25 less a week than the minimum wage. (The role as you've advertised it and described it is not an au pair role, for which the rules are different.)

Given that you're already paying less than the legally required minimum wage, I find it somewhat incredible that you are posting here about what other work your nanny does in the hours for which you are not paying her.

I hope that one of the much vaunted British values that the government is so keen to have taught in classrooms will be the treatment of employees.

[firsttimerSW11]

I don't think you have a leg to stand on personally, as a PP said, 3 days a week salary irrespective of whether you're paying them £180 per Papinian or a more standard £10 per hour net isn't a whole lot of money.
However I don't think there is any problem nicely voicing any concerns such as working very late and then being very tired the following days that she is working for you.

[Seb]

Hi SWD
Can I ask what your concern would be, putting aside the other posts comments?

As in is it the type of work that's the problem?

[gail0810]

I have a live out nanny who works for me 3 days a week and she has another job on the other two days - which is none of my business as I am not employing her on those days and I know she needs more money than the 3 days a week salary I pay her.

Though a live in nanny would have less overheads than a live out nanny (no rent, bills or food costs) of course the pay is lower and as others have said - so it's not likely she is earning that much.

Au pairs also often have other jobs and unless you are paying her to be available on the other 4 days a week or have made a formal 'on call' arrangement with her, I can't see what right you have to oppose/stop her having another job - unless it began to impact on the work she does for you on the days you employ her, or your family life (eg coming home late and making lots of noise etc).

[SWLondonDad]

Hi all,

Thanks everyone for your comments.

In reply to a few questions
* The National Minimum Wage does not apply to nannies living as part of the family household and do not have separate accommodation.
* We’re not trying to stop her doing anything. We’re not trying to exercise a right to tell he what to do.
* The issue is not with her trying to earn other income, but that it was a bar job she wanted

My wife and I had different views on this. One of us felt it was perfectly understandable that someone would want to work in a bar. The other of us thought it was a very odd idea, because they couldn’t ever see themselves doing it. So when there are two opposing viewpoints it’s interesting to see what other people thought. Sometimes it’s hard understanding a persons motivation if thats not something you would do.

Worries about the bar work in particular are
* The view it could be very energy sapping, and when our nanny is tired she seems to struggle with things a lot. Obviously this raises concerns as if she’s tired from a bar job how this may effect her nanning.
* Would she have enough time to relax and recover from working roughly 6 days a week
* There were also concerns as to what the impact would be if my wife goes from 3-4 days work a week, and how this would conflict with nights where we need her to babysit.

We’re entirely not stopping her looking for or getting a 2nd job. All I’m trying to do is see how other people would feel about a nanny working a bar job as well. One of us is bothered by this, the other is not.

Put another way, if during interviewing she had said that she was planning on being a part time nanny, part time bar person, then I don’t think the one of us who isn’t happy about the bar work would have elected to hire her. Obviously as someone hiring you have the right to chose that. This arising now has given one of us something to think about.

Assuming it doesn’t affect her nanning, I’m sure things will be fine. And if it does, obviously it would need to be addressed.

As first time parents, with a new person living in your house there are things to adjust to. We, I am sure like many other people are just trying to figure things out. If someones not comfortable about something, be it for a fair reason, or just because something is new to them and thats not how they would do things, then these things take time to get used to. And if you don’t get comfortable with how things are, then thats not going to make you feel happy as a parent.

As my dad tells me, experience is what you get just after you need it. And we’re still getting experience here.

Once again thanks for everyones feedback.

[Bodders1]

My nanny works as a midwife including night shifts on the days she doesn't work for us. It's a tricky one as nannies like the rest of us will have late nights before they come to work the next morning to look after our children and what they do in their free time is none of our business as employers. Nothwithstanding that I wouldn't employ someone I didn't think was sensible enough about the condition they turn up to work in. I think the slight differentiator here is that it won't be the odd late night so I can appreciate your concerns about her being tired for work. I think the best you can do if you are happy with your nanny is to let you nanny give the arrangement a go if that is her preference.
With respect to pay - it does sounds a low for 37 hours as week but it sounds from your post as if it is within the bounds of the law. A number of nanny agencies I have spoken to quoted £300-£500 per week for a live in nanny although that would be for a 45-50 hour week. I think morally, it is a case of challenging yourselves whether you think what you are paying her is "fair and reasonable". Good luck sorting it out.

[papinian]

SWLondonDad: Much of your post seems less than clear.

You say that the issue is not with the live-in nanny trying to earn other income, but that it was a bar job she wanted. However, none of what you list as "worries about the bar work in particular" relate a bar job as opposed to any other job, e.g. "There were also concerns as to what the impact would be if my wife goes from 3-4 days work a week, and how this would conflict with nights where we need her to babysit."

What you seem to be saying is that you want someone to work 3 days a week but also be available to work extra time if and when you want them. A supplementary zero hours contract so to speak.

You say that "Obviously as someone hiring you have the right to chose that." Of course, but then you have to actually tell the person you're hiring that you want them to be on call the rest of the week and not only work the agreed hours. It seems that you didn't do that or document it in any way.

[carofg]

How long has your nanny been working for you?
Did she think initially that she could live in London on the wage you are paying her and has perhaps realised she can't? How would you feel if she got a 2 day nanny job instead of the bar job? Would you feel differently?

Is she lonely and needing to make friends? Nannying can be very isolating and unless she has a big circle of friends she is going to want some adult company. It is also the summer holidays and lots of people are away and there are very few activities running.
Bar work is a great way to make friends and have a social life. Just think she won't be hanging round the house as much if she's working nights!

[Lucullus]

Try looking at this differently. You've just gone for a job interview, and someone asked you about your home situation. They then decided not to offer you a role because you told them you have children, and spend as much time as you can with them.

They were, understandably, worried that you wouldn't be focused on your job, because you had other stuff going on.

At which point you would justifiably feel very hard done by.

I read this thread and thought "It's none of your business - either when you interview her or employ her - what she does in her spare time. You have no right to know this, or to exert any influence over it." If you are both in employment, think about what type of behaviour you expect from your employer, and think about what type of behaviour you are legally obliged to.

If you don't like this nanny, then get a new one, but whomever it is is worried about bar work should, I think, get a bit of empathy. Even if the nanny is making a mistake to try and do both, that's her mistake to make - and gain experience from.

[Bibbity]

I can't see anything in your post objecting to the nature of bar work per se, other than one of you wouldn't ever contemplate doing it. Well, not to put too fine a point on it, so what? There are lots of jobs I wouldn't want to do, but I wouldn't stop other people doing them! Your real objection is that you will lose the flexibility of having her on-call if she takes a second job.

If you want to be her sole employer then you will need to pay her a retainer to ensure her availability and amend her contract to reflect that. You can't dictate what she does when she is not working for you and if you employed her part-time then you have to be realistic about the prospect of her looking elsewhere to make up full-time hours.

Have you thought about what you might do if she develops an active social life which also affects her availability and her energy levels?

[MGMidget]

The nanny is live in so presumably can manage fine on what you pay because her big expenses are taken care of. Therefore I think it depends what you have agreed with her at the outset. If you agreed she needed to be available for babysitting then her bar work will affect this agreement so you are right to be concerned. If nothing was discussed or agreed then you are in a weak position to veto it now.