Newton prep or state? Post Reply

[ngulra]

My child has just got a place for year 1 at Newton prep. He is currently at a much sought after state primary, doing above average academically (less well socially, perhaps) and we are torn about what to do.

Our inital application to Netwon Prep was motivated by a sense and our experience that the state primary was not willing/able to direct much focused attention to our son. While we expected staff/student ratios to be much higher in the state sector than in the independent sector, what has struck us is the lack of time or apparent interest his teacher has in spending time with us to discuss his progress or ongoing concerns. We know this dismissiveness of the teacher is a feeling shared by a number of other parents in the class and not a feature of us being particularly 'pushy' or 'demanding' parents. Trying to engage the teacher leads us nowhere but engenders an extremely defensive and hosile response. Given this is our first year at the school, having such a bad experience doesn't inspire much confidence for the years ahead. With recent press about low teacher morale in the state sector, we are worried we may continue to find teachers less than approachable or motivated.

Having read the rave reviews of Newton Prep, we would value hearing from any parents of NP kids about the teachers and their interest in the particular circumstances, strengths and weaknesses of the children in their charge. Sending our son to NP will be a commute as well as a huge financial sacrifice but knowing the teachers are by and large motivated, approachable, bring out the best in children and allow them to reach their fullest potential would be good reasons to move him to NP. We are not concerned about academic results, leaver destinations or facilities per se (though obviously NP does well on all counts) but are looking for a school with welcoming and caring teachers. We have a bright and sensitive boy who we believe under the right care, will flourish but left to his own devices in a somewhat ambivalent school, is likely to languish.

We have to make a decision quickly so any response, however quick and off the cuff, much appreciated! Any reflections on NP in general would also be welcomed gratefully. We'd rather not get into a debate on state vs. private as we know there are good and bad teachers in both sectors. But a sense of what is happening at an aggregate level in each sector in terms of teacher quality/motivation would be useful information.

[Wheresmyschool?]

What a stressful situation - I hope I can help as an amateur who has seen a lot of this before.

First the bad news.

There is no way that the state sector will give your child the attention you feel he/she needs. They simply don't have the resources. They are simply unable to offer the frequent (sometimes incessant) 1-2-1 feedback that many of us want for our children. If you were to go to Newton Prep the attention your child receives, the facilities and their extra curricular activities will make you wonder how you ever thought a good state primary was sufficient.

Now the good news.

In my many many years of watching children develop in local schools (both state and independent) I am not yet a convert to the idea that independent is best.

Sure they have more facilities but if you're child is enrolled at a Spencer or Ironsides then they'll be getting top class sports coaching on the weekends.

Sure they perhaps don't have the theatres or the teaching assistants but what difference does that actually make?

I'm a great believe that a good state school supported by busy weekends with extra curricular activity and tutors for the eleven plus run up will get you *every* benefit in terms of education/social skills/development.

However what you won't get are frequent tea and biscuits with the head teacher and daily emails but does that matter?

Hope that helps!

[Balhammom]

Agee with WMS.

They're different beasts but the leavers destinations (for middle class kids with ambitious parents) are almost always the same.

If it's a massive sacrifice I would be very very careful. You're setting out down a route that not only costs £15k or so now but will do so for the next ten years.

That's another mortgage and if you think it's tough decision now try taking him/her out in five years because it's too expensive - that would be heartbreaking!

[Batterseamummy]

In response to you wanting to hear from any NP parents - I'm one and can't praise it highly enough. Every teacher, teaching assistant, department head etc that I have met has been approachable, caring and extremely thorough with the way they teach and the way they interact with the children and parents. They give each child a lot of 1 on 1 time and my son's teacher for example has been making sure he gets extra support for the area that he was struggling in and as a result he has improved considerably in a very short space of time. And as you said, the facilities are second to none in this area. It is an outstanding school in so many respects but obviously comes at a price. It just depends if you want to pay that price. Good luck!

[hellokittyerw]

We have 2 good friends with children at Newton prep and they all rave about the school (cant speak from my own experience as my children are not at school yet).
In particular they mentioned the individual attention the children get from the teachers and how well the teachers keep the parents informed. For example my friend's child was having a difficult time dealing with other children not always wanting to play with him during the breaks, and this was picked up by the teacher and discussed with the parents.

[nycmommy]

My daughter attends NP (she's year 2) and has since nursery. She absolutely loves it and my husband and I are also completely happy with pretty much every aspect of the school.

The thing my husband pointed out when we visited the school before she enrolled was that every child was smiling, it's true. The kids are happy and they look like kids, hair is messy, cardies buttoned wrong, they look "smart" but not like little adults.

Starting at the top, the Headmistress is fantastic. She is friendly, approachable and invested (from what I've seen and experienced) in every child. The same goes for the Lower School head.

I've had an open and friendly relationship with all my daughter's teachers.

Yes, it's expensive and we commute as well, which is a pain as the trains are less than reliable (and really crowded in the morning).

However; I wouldn't change a thing.

[ngulra]

Thanks ever so much for these reflections. I'm always amazed at how people are willing to lend a hand to complete strangers through this site! My husband and I are going to have a long think about what to do this weekend and these thoughtful responses will be really helpful. Thanks again!

[supergirl]

Newton Prep is a great school. We didnt choose it in the end due to distance (we are at the opposite end of Battersea).
A friend who had 2 kids at NP remove them because the kids and the school didnt clicked. Her children are very bright but one of them learn in a different way (it s not SN more of just because his brain works differently). She felt the teacher and the school were not supportive. Her other child was fine but was not running in every morning. The kids are very settled now at their new school where they ve been for 2 years now.
All i am saying is NP may not be for every kids despite it being a great school, you know your child. You probably wouldnt your child to change again.

I also agree with a previous poster, you really need to do your sum because taking a child out of private school (a good one that is) could be quite traumatic. Every term you always end up paying more than the fee because of clubs, uniform, school trips, social, etc.

[LP73]

It is sad but the private system will really care for your child and nurture them in different ways. It is very sad that state schools do not have enough resources as there are some wonderful schools out there.
We visited NP and friends have children who are there.
We ruled it out in the end as we felt that the new headmistress wasn't a great fit for us compared to Mr Allen who used to be there.
Our friends are under the same impression and are debating if they should change schools. It is my understanding that parents are now split on this
Like any school you have to go with what feels best for you and what would work best for your child.
If the commute is to long is there not another school closer?
Follow your gut feeling it's never wrong.
Best of luck

[flatsally]

I completely agree with WMS as well. A good state school, combined with extra curricular is the perfect solution for a bright young child, and as it is a good state school, I suspect you must live very close, and having a close community and local friends for playmates as they grow up is worth considering, as you are probably driving them around to lots of things already. I agree that the private sector probably offer lots of opportunity, and class ratios are small, but if you child is bright, he/she will be fine. I am more of the opinion that it is more important at secondary level re the independent sector, and so long as you arrange a good tutor at year 4/5, you will arrive at the same destination as if you had gone to NP, but without the big dent in the pocket!!! Good luck and remember at this level, I wouldn't worry too much about it so long as they are happy, that is the key really.

[Ilovecamping]

I'm a current NP parent and I only have good things to say about the school. Communication from school to parents is fantastic, both on a collective and an individual basis. When we were deciding on schools we were blown away by the buzzy atmosphere and how happy and engaged the children were, both in and out of the class room. Having now been parents there for a few years, we've seen nothing to change our opinion of it.

Although it's a little off topic, I was a bit surprised at the comments from LP73 about the Headmistress and the supposed 'split' amongst the parents. I have seen absolutely no evidence of any split and find the comment rather strange, especially from someone who does not actually have children at the school. At any school, a change of Head tends to bring with it changes in certain policies and practices and it's almost inevitable that the occasional parent will object to these but I personally think that the change at NP has been highly beneficial for the school and I think we are lucky to have the current Head.

Coming back onto topic, I would suggest to the OP that she and her husband should treat all these responses with caution as all of us who have responded can only speak of our own experiences; I completely agree with the poster who said it was best to go with one's own gut feeling. I don't know which state primary you are currently at but there is much to be said for both good local state primaries and good local prep schools.

In general, I tend to think that children are most likely to succeed and achieve their full potential in a school environment that suits them and in which they feel comfortable and that this is something only the parents can judge. For us NP has turned out to be the right choice but other children may well thrive in a different environment, whether state or private.

Whichever school you choose, good luck to you and your child!

[dohnia]

As a state primary teacher I am so sorry to hear about your experience.
It is true that state school teachers have higher external (read: ofsted and the govt as opposed to parents who pay their wages) demands but this should not affect communication with parents. If you say that other parents feel this too I would recommend talking to the Deputy Head or Head. It would be a shame for the state education system to lose parents who are positively engaged in their child's education.
Do you know any parents further up the school who could share their experiences with a wider range of teachers?
Ultimately you need to decide where your child will be happiest, if they are unhappy at school then find somewhere they will be happy.


(A bit off topic but I personally feel that there are huge social benefits to attending a state school although I know this is not a priority for everyone/not everyone sees this in the same way.)

[lindsey]

Can I just add my sons are at a very good state school in Chelsea and we have the most amazing teachers that will give you all the time in the world to discuss your child's progress our head and deputy head will also be there for you when ever you need them. I just think it's a bit sad that some parents look down on state schools you just need to find the right one for you and not be so judgmental on state schools.

I was a nanny at Newton Prep for many years and I loved the school but I couldn't afford to send my children there I would recommend it as a school but also would highly recommended you look into good states schools because they do exist.

[Flowermummy]

My daughter is in one of the most sought after schools between the commons.
I found that the interest/time spent by the teachers discussing her progress varies a lot according to the teacher. For ex her Y3 teacher is v available to discuss her progress, whereas her Y2 teacher wasn't.
When I'm talking about "progress" I am referring to the academic progress. In my experience of state schools, they don't really monitor "social" development.

[swimwithturtles]

In response to dohnia, I agree with the social benefits of london state schools and the positive side to diversity both financially and socially, but there can also be negatives especially if the school doesn't address issues or deal with them effectively. Teachers are stretched in the state system, but the ones who are good are probably the best you will ever get. They have to be in order to succeed in that environment and with the limits put on them by the government. They have many more challenges to deal with in the classroom. Unless the heads of the school support them positively, which I don't believe my Outstanding Clapham Primary school does, it is hit or miss. You get lucky with your year group and your group of parents or you don't. You do have to bump up the curriculum and activities outside of school and be involved in order for the child to flourish. They will only push a child who is asking for it. If both parents work full-time it is hard to keep tabs on this.

It depends on many factors. NP is a very good school. Go with your instinct and count yourself lucky that you can have a choice. Many others don't. If you stay in the state sector be vocal and speak out. There is accountability. It just may take a long time to get results.

I speak from experience of the state sector and from the experience of taking one of my children out of it for the private sector. There are positives to both, but it truly depends on your individual situation.

You want to know that by the time your child leaves primary school they are capable of being independent in their learning and have the self-knowledge and confidence to do this to succeed. You can't hold their hand after they go to Secondary and you won't really know everything they are doing. Go with the school that is going to do this in the best possible way for your kids. Childhood is short.