Do local faith schools demand money from parents? Post Reply

[Wheresmyschool?]

Hello Everyone
A neighbour is hoping to get into a local high performing Catholic primary and asked me if I knew if parents "had" to donate to a building fund.

I had no idea what they were talking about but they sent me this link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-34129659

Does anyone know if that is something that is requested?

Thanks all

[actuallyadad]

I imagine it can't hurt to make a donation, it's all a game of making friends with the vicar/governors etc.

(By the way I think all religious state schools should be abolished. It's wrong to distribute public funds/amenities on religious grounds. Nobody proposes a NHS hospital which only treats Jews for example, so why should state schools be any different? ALL state schools should be open to ALL children regardless of religion (or lack of).)

[actuallyadad]

www.fairadmissions.org.uk

[papinian]

Let's go through this:

(1) Anti-faith school trolling post by Wheresmyschool. (He/she's been putting up one of these every few weeks since forever...)

(2) Post cross-refers to an article on BBC website that is a propaganda piece for British Humanist Association "report" on schools asking parents for voluntary contributions to maintenance costs. Note that even the BHA report makes it clear that not all of the schools involved were faith schools.

(3) Nobody has any evidence that any school in this area (faith or otherwise) has solicited a voluntary contribution from parents as part of the admission process.

(4) The rules on this are clear:

(i) Schools are not allowed to request financial contributions - whether voluntary or compulsory - as any part of the admissions process, including when offering a place.

(ii) Once a place has been accepted, a school may request a voluntary contribution.

In my experience, plenty of non-faith schools solicit voluntary contributions from parents of existing pupils. It's a practice that is by no means peculiar to faith schools.

The BHA report is flawed because most of the examples it gives of solicitation of voluntary contributions fall within (ii) rather than (i) and are perfectly permissible (your child has already got a place so no implied threat of not getting one if you don't make the voluntary contribution).

The sort of language that Wheresmyschool uses ("demand money from parents" = "request parents to make voluntary contributions towards costs") is really offensive and unnecessary.

actuallyadad: Do you have the same view of nursing homes that admit on faith that you have of schools that admit on faith? Nightingale House in Balham is a Jewish nursing home right in Balham:
http://www.nightingalehammerson.org/

[Wheresmyschool?]

Not trolling but asking a question asked by a friend who had seen this:

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... ces-ofsted

but I guess the easy answer to any uncomfortable question is always going to be to attack the questioner.


https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/br ... arch-finds

http://www.wisetutors.co.uk/faith-schoo ... rch-finds/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/educa ... 84008.html

[actuallyadad]

@papinian - yes - I think ALL government funded things (schools, hospitals, nursing homes- whatever) should be available for ALL regardless of religion. It's quite simple. Seems a no- brainer to me.

By the way I don't think the original post was "trolling". Seemed to me like a fair question. Let's not stifle people posting things which are bit thought provoking by making those kind of accusations, or else this site becomes very dull. (Remember this isn't a religious site - free thinking is allowed!)

[kidzibuzi]

A few places in these schools are allocated to children who live close to the school and do not depend on their faith. As far as I can remember, I gave whatever I wanted each year, they might have asked for a minimum of £30, so nothing too taxing for a year. The only tricky situation was the first day at school when my daughter was not able to give her "christian" name as she does not have one. Apart from that, it was a good experience as this school in particular was really open minded towards other religions.

[twomonkeys]

I can answer the question from my experience: No, they do not. We go to school events and enthusiastically support the PTA, but nothing more than that is expected.

[Mum2Monkey]

My friend sends her son toa faith school in Putney. In addition to usual PTA type stuff, she makes a contribution each term to the church for the "building fund". Whilst supposedly voluntary, I think you have to "prove" financial difficulties if you can't pay. I can't remember the exact amount though. Maybe £100 per term.

[supergirl]

Good question Petal. I d love to know too.

[waitingforgodot]

Good morning,

As far as having faith schools, I think freedom of choice should be respected. Catholic parents ALSO pay taxes. They are not getting a special privilege. If their schools do better is because their governors (catholic parents and members of the Church) have higher expectations and demand more from their teachers, parents and pupils. Funnily enough, non catholic parents have no problems sending their kids to those catholic schools you so much dislike if there are spaces.

Your example of the jewish hospital assumes the hospital would sent people away if they had space. This is not the case with faith schools. If there are free spaces they will take ANYONE and they are obliged to do so by the local authority. I think many schools will also take kids in care or with disabilities first regardless of their faith (i know of a case at the Oratory).

Finally, lets not forget that for centuries, the Church, both Catholic and Anglican were the ONLY ONES educating poor kids for free with the money they got from charity. And these is how some people want to repay them... we seem to forget history when we become socialists

Cheers!

[Scottov]

Faith Schools are always a controversial matter, particularly in london where they are often equated with the higher performing state schools.

intuitively it feels unfair to exclude people from a public institution, after all don't we all contribute?

I think a better way to think about it, is that a faith school represents a large slice of the population, a significant, democratic piece of the electorate. they also have rights, the democratic material weight to expect that faith is taught in their child's education, rights just as valid as others who do not wish it to be so.

Faith schools just represent the make up of society. is that really so unfair?

[actuallyadad]

It's unfair because state resources, paid for by all, are not available to all.

It's like deciding to give the state pension only to Jews, or having an NHS hospital which only treats Buddhists.

For example, Google says about 8% of the UK population are Catholics. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/11297461)

Why should such a small minority get exclusive resources, facilities and opportunities funded by the state when there is such pressure on school places? Do Catholics pay more tax?

I'm not saying don't teach religion, just that allocation of school places based on faith is wrong and unfair. It's only one step away from allocating places based on skin colour. In these modern times it's an outdated concept and should be stopped.

[Scottov]

It's unfair because state resources, paid for by all, are not available to all.

It's like deciding to give the state pension only to Jews, or having an NHS hospital which only treats Buddhists.

For example, Google says about 8% of the UK population are Catholics. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/11297461)

Why should such a small minority get exclusive resources, facilities and opportunities funded by the state when there is such pressure on school places? Do Catholics pay more tax?

I'm not saying don't teach religion, just that allocation of school places based on faith is wrong and unfair. It's only one step away from allocating places based on skin colour. In these modern times it's an outdated concept and should be stopped.

there are hospitals based on faith, quite a few of them actually. What you seem to ignore is that 8% of the population is over 5 million people - they're entitled to have their views represented.

do you feel the same way about single gender institutions?

significant sections of society are entitled, and this isn't up for opinion, to have to have their views heard. which they are.

everyone is equal is not analogous to everyone is the same. that's a little too close to UKIP/BNP territory for my liking so lets steer away from that.

society is different, and our institutions should reflect that diversity. and thankfully it does.

[asdfghjjkl]

There is ABSOLUTELY no requirement.

It is requested, that is all. No followup or pressure whatsoever if it is not given.

There is ABSOLUTELY no filtering in the admissions process based on donations.

Oh! The conspiracy theories!

If you wanted your children to go to a faith-based school you would likely be of that faith and not have an issue. The schools provide excellent education and help distribute the burden on schools. What is the problem? If all pupils need to be educated and these schools are Voluntarily -Aided, then they are actually costing the State less than if they were at a regular State School. They don't deny pupils on the basis of faith unless there is already an over-subscription of those that can prove the faith.

Seriously, take a chill-pill and move on with your life you narky people. There is no separation of church and state in this country. Now, if you were in the US you would have a valid point, but not here.