IVF alternatives and NK Cells Post Reply

[wriggles]

I am 40 years old and have just completed my 3rd ivf cycle which was unsuccessful
I have now done ivf 3 x times; the first successful, and the latter two I started to bleed the day before I was due to test. It is just crushing...and am trying to figure out what next as I am not sure I can deal with another round either financially or emotionally. Acupuncture and Herbs? Can anyone shed any light on this approach?

On another note, I have been reading about natural killer cells and wonder if I have them? Can I have them even though I have had a successful pregnancy 3 years ago? I may be clutching at straws but with unexplained fertility I would love to find a reason for this journey I am going on.

Any advice or thoughts greatly appreciated

[cosmos99]

Wriggles - I really feel for you. I had many cycles with little success then as a final attempt went to ARGC and did the full monty... I too was 40. They believed that I had high NK cells (through expensive testing) so I had 4 rounds of IVIG to reduce them and it worked.
NK cell treatment is controversial some believe it in and others don't and it is expensive. I'm lucky enough to say that it worked for me.

PM me if you'd like more info.

[SW4Lancslass]

Oh wriggles - you have my utmost sympathy. I've been in your shoes previously and know how exhausting and heart rending it is.
You don't say where you've had your previous rounds of IVF, but in my experience, some clinics and clinicians are much more helpful than others when it comes to failed IVF attempts and their causes. If you want to pm me I can provide my experiences and further advice. One thing you should have had in your previous IVF attempts is medication to prevent early miscarriages.
To answer your questions -
Acupuncture- yes I'd recommend this to prepare your body for IVF and generally for stress levels . Judi Holt formerly at the awareness centre and now at Clapham Common Clinic is great and experienced in dealing with ladies undergoing fertility treatment.
Herbs ? I wasn't convinced personally but def think nutrition advice is worthwhile. Mel Brown formerly from Zita West clinic is v good.
Fertility friends website is a fantastic source of info and is worth a look.
And yes you can develop NK cells after having had a previous child. Apparently having a baby can make your body's immune system go into overdrive causing NK cells to attack your embryo although not all doctors even agree that NK cells in exist. If you test for high NK cells then there a number of options which are meant to reduce them including steroids, intralipids and ivig.
Lots of luck with it all.

[Cleod]

I have been there too. It is such an emotional turmoil.
I would recommend Dr Gorgy http://www.fertility-academy.co.uk/
He used to work at ARGC and then opened up his own clinic some years back. As some of the others have said some of the immune treatments are still in their early days evidence wise but anecdotally they seem to work. And they did for me. It means lots of expensive blood tests-Chicago tests- and then either intralipids or immunoglobulins (ivig) which are also expensive but if you test high then you need them and you fork out! I also went gluten free because that affected by test results.
I would recommend acupuncture too. It might not be for everyone but actually there is scientific evidence that it is useful in infertility. I would recommend kate Freemantle, kate@acuworks.co.uk. She works from home in Streatham, she used to work at Clapham Common clinic too but I think she may have left there now. I also went on fertility friends and infertility network websites, and look under immune issues on the forums. They are well worth a read to get your head around all the terminology and advice from others who have been through it or in it at the moment. Be ready with your £££!! Good luck! Xxx

[Earlsfield mummy]

You have my every sympathy - I've been there and its exhausting.

Have you had your AMH tested and are you responding badly to the treatment i.e. not producing many follicles? If so, it might not be worth doing ivf at all since your chances of conceiving naturally with one egg aren't too far off that with ivf if you are only responding with one egg as well (as I was).

Do your eggs look normal and are they fertilising OK? I was told to try COQ10 to improve egg quality. There is always DHEA too although I understand that some doctors think it helps and some don't.

If you are getting a good quality of fertilised eggs then its far more likely that you will get a successful result eventually if everything else looks normal -sperm, lining etc. And take heart, I was producing one egg which wasn't fertilising because of quality issues but I eventually fell pregnant naturally - its a cliche but it only takes one good one.

NK cells are contraversial. Some doctors don't believe that they exist at all. Worth investigating though I would have thought.

Finally, it may be too early to think about and it may not be for you but have you considered donor eggs? If you are even vaguely contemplating it, its a good idea to get on some waiting lists as they can be long (e.g. Lister is 6 months plus even though they claim 3-6 months).

Good luck and take care of yourself. I think its one of the most brutal processes that anyone can go through.

[Chucka]

Hi Hon

I would strongly recommend Naprofertility

http://lifefertilitycare.co.uk/

Lots of info on the website about why alternatives to IVF are very well worth knowing about. And also real hope for conceiving completely naturally where possible. I do know there are trained counsellors locally. They might be booked up but I or they could also refer you to literature and/or weblinks.

We have our busy two year old -conceived in the good old fashioned way- after many years trying. We could also have very possibly saved one miscarried baby had we known more about blood tests that lifefertility can tell you about.

We probably won't have a second baby because of my age but there is adoption and still so much good to be done in this world. No shortage of human beings needing love and a fair crack at life. : )

[Chucka]

Also this may be of interest : )

http://lifefertilitycare.co.uk/alternat ... -over-40s/

[wriggles]

Thank you so much for your messages. Yes it is such a brutal procedure and so confusing to know where to turn or to just draw a line under it. Having trouble believing it is game over!
I have been to Guys (successful treatment) 3 years ago, Chelsea & Westminster (unsuccessful) and The Lister (unsuccessful). I felt the Lister had the upper hand over C&W with the consultant etc.
My AMH is low @ 2.8 so you are right, maybe naturally is my best bet given only 5 then 3 eggs were retrieved my last two times. My embryos were grade 1 and 2 so they seem to be ok....Husband is all in good nick.
Also am taking Ubiquinol like it's going out of style! (version of CoQ10) not sure what DHEA is though?
Good info on the NK cells. I need to read more about them but may just go through the tests for now to see whether they are present.
Hanging on to hope but also feel like I am in a race against time.
x

[Chucka]

Our son was born only 3 months before I had my 45th birthday. We had the assistance of natural fertility monitoring only. Far more holistic than IVF. Moderate expenses only so you are not 'removed as this is a word used by spammer' so much financially. That in itself is an unhelpful pressure. Also we could not bear the thought of 'surplus' conceived embryos being frozen or destroyed and only the most 'viable' chosen.

Panic not. I have friends who do not have children at all. There is no shortage of people needing your love and your time. I think we feel under pressure sometimes when we should know we are very special just as we are. xxx

[Chucka]

Our son was born only 3 months before I had my 45th birthday. We had the assistance of natural fertility monitoring only. Far more holistic than IVF. Moderate expenses only so you are not 'removed as this is a word used by spammer' so much financially. That in itself is an unhelpful pressure. Also we could not bear the thought of 'surplus' conceived embryos being frozen or destroyed and only the most 'viable' chosen.

Panic not. I have friends who do not have children at all. There is no shortage of people needing your love and your time. I think we feel under pressure sometimes when we should know we are very special just as we are. xxx

[Earlsfield mummy]

Then definitely take heart. My AMH was only 2.5 around 18 months before I conceived naturally and I only had 2 follicles and one egg at best on ivf (so my body had a lot less eggs to select from in the natural process).

I will keep my fingers crossed for you - it sure gives you a new appreciation for what human beings have to cope with.

[gemmamorriss]

Don't give up hope at all!

I recommend you make an appointment with Jonathan Ramsey, 5 Devonshire Place 020 8846 7669 who is an expert in finding out (and fixing) what other reasons there may be for your not getting pregnant and I am an expert in helping you destress and work through all the emotional problems the rounds of IVF are having on your life (I'm a clinical hypnotherapist specialising in fertility)

Between us we are sure to help work this out..

Do feel free to message me anytime, if only for advice and a chat.

Big kiss
Gem xx
www.happyhypnosis.co.uk