Family law- getting permission to go overseas Post Reply

[Kiwifruit456]

Hi

I have 2 children. 1 by ex (never married) & a baby by current partner. Current partner is in v specialised line of work which is dying out in UK (& at 50, major career change non-trivial). He is unlikely to get another permanent job here & currently has a role overseas which he negotiated to part-time & which he can partly do remotely. At present he also has some UK-based contract work but it's an industry severely impacted by Brexit so we don't know if it will renew. There's no way we can survive on just the part-time overseas work.

I used to be in a highly paid career pre 1st child - but v long hours and totally incompatible with single parenthood. Have been absolutely busting my gut to craft a new career (entrepreneurial/ self employed) that worked around single parenthood - Made good progress but risky, time-consuming & no income yet although green shoots.

Financially things v close to the bone - exacerbated by ex having suddenly reduced maintenance to legal minimum (we're talking megacut). No more hols, treats, even coffees. It's our absolute last choice but if we can't generate enough to live off - only option is to go overseas so partner can go full-time. Ex would definitely seek legal recourse to try to stop me & child no. 1 going....

Would he be successful if we can demonstrate it's the only way to earn an income to sustain the family? (It's not like he could take full-time custody either - as he does super long hours)

Thx

[Kiwifruit456]

Many thanks Petal.

To clarify - the 'mega-cut' is not related to financial need but a perception that I should have got my proverbial into gear by now & found alternative income - given child has started school this year. (i.e. It's not his problem that it's virtually impossible to hold down a 9-5job in Central London when you've got over an hour's commute each way and you're on your own doing the drop offs/pick up at both ends of day). Of course I'd absolutely love to work locally but my CV is 20yrs of FS, so it's not trivial. I genuinely think I'm getting closer to the 'panacea' of having created my own reasonably paid flexible work - after a couple of years' hard graft in every spare moment. But for him that's not good enough. He seems to think I'm a 'work snob' and chasing a fantastical notion of fulfilling, high-level work - whilst if I'd only knuckle down I could just walk into something more mundane but local. Sadly having stuck with the same employer himself for decades, he is rather detached from the reality of finding work.

[MagnoliaMum]

Hi, I used to be a family lawyer, haven't practised for a while, but can give you the bare basics. It can be slightly different for an unmarried dad, but if he's on the birth certificate then he has Parental Responsibility and can apply for a court order to prevent you taking your eldest out of the UK. A practising lawyer would be able to advise you if he's likely to be successful in that, based on recent cases particularly any based on Brexit repercussions, however it is generally the case that if he's been an involved dad seeing his kid and paying maintenance etc then the court will come down on the side of the father and the status quo.

My advice to you would be to try to avoid it ending up with the courts. Talk to your ex, explain your problem. Make it clear this isn't about trying to stop him seeing his child and discuss ways that could facilitate that - e.g. longer periods of contact, regular trips by you back to the UK. Get him to work out if there are some countries that would be more acceptable for him, such as in Europe rather than the Far East. You may have to end up with a compromise that wouldn't necessarily be your first choice but that would be better than being blocked completely from leaving the UK.

Not easy for you, I know, nor for your husband, but you owe it to your child to find a solution to maintain contact with the biological father. These things are possible but they take a bit of work, and the grown ups all being grown-up about it, your ex included. Best of luck with that and with finding a new life abroad!

[MagnoliaMum]

Hi, I used to be a family lawyer, haven't practised for a while, but can give you the bare basics. It can be slightly different for an unmarried dad, but if he's on the birth certificate then he has Parental Responsibility and can apply for a court order to prevent you taking your eldest out of the UK. A practising lawyer would be able to advise you if he's likely to be successful in that, based on recent cases particularly any based on Brexit repercussions, however it is generally the case that if he's been an involved dad seeing his kid and paying maintenance etc then the court will come down on the side of the father and the status quo.

My advice to you would be to try to avoid it ending up with the courts. Talk to your ex, explain your problem. Make it clear this isn't about trying to stop him seeing his child and discuss ways that could facilitate that - e.g. longer periods of contact, regular trips by you back to the UK. Get him to work out if there are some countries that would be more acceptable for him, such as in Europe rather than the Far East. You may have to end up with a compromise that wouldn't necessarily be your first choice but that would be better than being blocked completely from leaving the UK.

Not easy for you, I know, nor for your husband, but you owe it to your child to find a solution to maintain contact with the biological father. These things are possible but they take a bit of work, and the grown ups all being grown-up about it, your ex included. Best of luck with that and with finding a new life abroad!

[mgb]

Hi, first let me say I'm sorry for your situation. It's a shame your child's father has decided to reduce child maintenance to statutory minimum.

You asked about the legal process for moving a child abroad, I'll try to explain at high level.

The court order is called Leave to Remove. The test for whether this is granted is based on the child's quality of life. The court will look for you to show how the move abroad will benefit the child in all ways of life, schooling, medical, housing, transportation ease between the location and the child's father, etc. Your solicitor will help you consider these points and determine whether your case has promise.

Bear in mind this is a costly application and the average case with solicitor's and court fees is £50k but can be double that.

Wish you all the best luck in your situation.

[Samalawl]

If he did take you to court I would hope the judge would be on his side. I have a 7 year old with a previous partner and a baby with my current hubby, we would love to move abroad but I would never do that to my son and his father. No job is worth that. If you are happy to take your son away from his father then how about leave your eldest in the custody of his dad? If you aren't willing to do that you need to question why you are willing to do it to your ex. Stop **** around with a "could happen" hobby and get a more stable job with a steady income to get back on your feet!

[petey_burgess]

Hi there Kiwifruit

I am a family lawyer based in Clapham Common. The answer to your question is, unfortunately, not black and white.

As one or two of the other replies on this thread indicates, if the father's name is on the birth certificate and your eldest was born after 2003, then he will have parental responsibility (PR) and you will require his permission to remove your eldest from the jurisdiction, or otherwise the court would have to decide the issue in what a "Leave to Remove" application.

If you left with your eldest and he has PR and objects then it would be an abduction and he can apply for the child's return - there is an international convention which applies in most western countries to deal with this.

Whether or not you would be successful depends on a whole host of factors, but the paramount principle is the child's welfare. If your eldest is a teenager, their ascertainable wishes and feelings are likely to be of central relevance to the question of what is in their best interests.

In recent years it has become more difficult for mothers in your position to obtain leave to remove (the case law used to be weighted in favour of the departing parent) and each case turns on its own facts, so they are notoriously difficult to call.

You may also be entitled to revert back to the father on his financial position, depending on his own circumstances. You can apply for capital and income provision from an unmarried parent via the courts as well as the Child Maintenance Service, but in order to advise on that I would need to know more about his circumstances and what he is paying at the moment to see whether you qualify.

If you want to chat it through, you can call me or drop me an email - my details can be found at www.burgessmee.com

Good luck!
Peter Burgess