General election - vote for staying in EU? Post Reply

[Flowermummy]

I usually vote Lib Dem.
I am however wondering if it is better to vote Labour in this election? Given that in Battersea Labour are much closer to the tories than the Lib Dems.
I would be very keen on a proper opposition to Hard Brexit (which, btw, I think will affect our children's opportunities much more than Labour's proposed VAT on private school fees).
Or should I stick with the Lib Dems?

[ukrailblog]

So, to those wondering who is actually in second place, here are two more ways you can generally tell.

1) Count how many leaflets you get from each party. The more leaflets, the harder they are trying, and thus the better they think the chance they have. A political party will rarely send out lots of leaflets to an area they don't think they can win (as leaflets = money, and that money can always be spent somewhere else)

2) Go for a drive around the area, and count the poster boards (a few days before polling). But it isn't as simple as who has the most. As a rough guide, for each 10 Conservative posters, you need 15 or more Labour ones for Labour to have a chance, and you need 25 or more Lib Dem ones for the Lib Dems to have a chance. Complicated huh?

Both of these are far from perfect, but do tend to be predictors in a local area in my experience. Or you could just ask your neighbours!

[EarlsfieldDad23]

All local MP's in Wandsworth voted to remain and so did Dan Watkins in Tooting. I think Allin-Khan voting against Article 50 and her own party but not resigning from the Shadow Cabinet was a bit strange.

I voted to remain but realistically accept the following:

1) The Tories and Labour are both going to see through Brexit. To not do so after their promises and the initial result and start of negotiations would cause revolt and the markets and pound would plummet.

2) The Lib Dems have said they would give another referendum but they will never get in, have barely moved in the polls and have no experience of Government in any meaningful sense. Whether it would happen is highly debatable.

3) May has not said she wants a Hard or soft Brexit but will negotiate for a success.

So for me it's down to Labour and Conservatives.

I cannot imagine Corbyn and his divided membership and parliamentary party running the country. How could they take over the negotiations now? Also this is not just about Brexit... May is moderate and centrist and Tory policies seem better than Corbyn's hard left socialism which is off the chart!

The local council in Wandsworth is fantastic with low council tax and wouldn't want that to change!

It's a tough pill this Brexit stuff but ultimately we've got to get on with it with some stable leadership.

[Jen66]

Feel exactly the same Earlsfield Dad.

I think Labour NEED to get slaughtered at this election to sort themselves out.

[graceygirl]

So, to those wondering who is actually in second place, here are two more ways you can generally tell.

1) Count how many leaflets you get from each party. The more leaflets, the harder they are trying, and thus the better they think the chance they have. A political party will rarely send out lots of leaflets to an area they don't think they can win (as leaflets = money, and that money can always be spent somewhere else)

2) Go for a drive around the area, and count the poster boards (a few days before polling). But it isn't as simple as who has the most. As a rough guide, for each 10 Conservative posters, you need 15 or more Labour ones for Labour to have a chance, and you need 25 or more Lib Dem ones for the Lib Dems to have a chance. Complicated huh?

Both of these are far from perfect, but do tend to be predictors in a local area in my experience. Or you could just ask your neighbours!

What do you also think about boots on the ground door knockers? Also only seen this from the conservatives so far!

[papinian]

It seems you have quite the reputation for your pompous and condescending posts.

If an immigrant complains about the tax system here, it is condescending to say that that person knew the tax rates when they moved here. Now you're doubling down and again saying that someone who's an immigrant to the U.K. isn't entitle to complain about the high level of taxes, a much higher level of taxes in fact than when I did move here, e.g. no personal allowance, 45% higher rate, practically no pension credit.

[Jen66]

You an immigrant Papinian? Why didn't you say....

[storm35]

Getting back to earlsfielddads comment, I'd just like to also point out Theresa May's less than successful record as Home Secretary herself vs what they pledged to do. Also - look at who she's surrounded herself with. Liam Fox, Boris, Michael Gove and David Davis in charge of Brexit? These guys cant speak in coherent sentences! All they do is bluff !
I honestly just cannot vote these guys in charge of our country's future which is why I have to stick to fighting it. The reason I think May hasn't specified hard or soft Brexit is because she hasn't got a clue and she knows "hard" will really turn people against her, she needs a deal that doesnt exist. They are also seriously understaffed to sort this mess out. Gina Miller has a very good point.
(ps school cuts and NHS funding/privatisation)

[Annabel (admin)]

Hi
Trying to keep up with this thread and delete those comments that are personal and off topic.

I'm going through it now but if you see anything I've missed please email me.

It's about what parties one might vote for so please let's keep it on topic.

Thanks

[Flowermummy]

May is moderate and centrist

- really??? Have you not seen the right wing people that she has surrounded herself with?! To me they are right wing and off the charts. Did you not see the Tory mp (john redwood) telling people to buy nonexistent British cars?

[Denwand]

These guys cant speak in coherent sentences! All they do is bluff !

As opposed to Tim Farron's statesmanlike, coherent and honest dealing with the answer to a question about where he stood on homosexuality quickly and precisiely !

Or (insert name of Labour front bench member here) honest and to-the-point clarity on how they are going to pay for anything that they are promising (oh yes VAT on school fees) or whether Corbyn still considers Hamas and the provisonal IRA as his friends!

[storm35]

Denwand, I'm not supporting Corbyn, I'm supporting the Lib Dems because I happen to think that Brexit is the most important thing to have politically happened for years. The Tories have created this mess and division in the first place, which far from Theresa May would want and have you believe, is far from over. She is calling for unity and her favourite newspaper (who's editor she privately dined with) is screaming out hateful headlines every time someone dares to question their agenda. We're saboteurs at the moment right? If you would rather vote for them and cross your fingers that they dont make a complete hash of it, then that is your prerogative, we all have our choice. Personally I will go down fighting because I dont think theyre up to the job and I think we should stay in the EU.

[Denwand]

I can see that voting Lib Dem as a protest vote is the obvious choice for those aghast at the government's EU polices.

As regards the ghastly Daily Mail that you quoted...well party leaders regularly meet with Fleet Street barons but are hardly responsible for their front pages...I doubt that dear old Theresa May was very pleased with that headline - if fact the subtlety is (very unusual for the Daily Mail!) that it can be read so as to support both camps!

[storm35]

Downing St confirmed he was the only media figure to get hospitality from her in her first six months as PM last year - and it was a private dinner. She also hired the Daily Mail's political editor as her official spokesperson in February.

[papinian]

As opposed to Tim Farron's statesmanlike, coherent and honest dealing with the answer to a question about where he stood on homosexuality quickly and precisiely !

It's shameful what the media did to Tim Farron regarding homosexual acts being sinful. Sin is a question of religion. No politician should be interrogated about their religious beliefs, especially not Tim Farron given that he voted for gay marriage, etc. This was started by Cathy Newman on Channel 4 who has form in this area - having been caught out lying about her experience at a south London mosque:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/ ... s-reaction

Or (insert name of Labour front bench member here) honest and to-the-point clarity on how they are going to pay for anything that they are promising (oh yes VAT on school fees) or whether Corbyn still considers Hamas and the provisonal IRA as his friends!

Corbyn never called the provisional IRA his friends. That's a lie. What Corbyn did do was very much contribute to Northern Ireland's peace process in the 1980s at a time when little Englanders had the British Army terrorising the civilian population of half of Northern Ireland. Without people like Corbyn the peace process would never have happened and it's disgusting that small-minded people sneer at him about his contribution.