Anyone else annoyed at the excessive 'settling in' period for reception in primary school penalising the least well off? Post Reply

[GuyD73]

Well just briefly Livegreen, my hospital comparison was only intended to demonstrate that institutions do not always ‘know best’ and I think that analogy does an admirable job of that thanks.

And my support of the school is entirely relevant to this discussion because it somewhat contradicts your continued, baseless and unpleasant accusations that I’m undermining the school, which I am not.

Your most hilarious comment though is to assume you know things you can’t possibly know. FYI, when I emailed my fellow parents at the school, I received quite a few messages of support from other parents saying I was welcome to speak for them, they wished to cancel their home visits and they were grateful for my representation so I’m afraid, yet again, you are just PLAIN WRONG.

If you read the thread Livegreen you’ll see quite a few people have come out in my support, so your continued pathetic attempts to make this sound like it’s a solo crusade with no support from others, both within my school and others in the borough, is so obviously not true, it makes you look a bit silly.

I am simply trying to get the school to rethink its policy so that it’s fair to all parents and works for everyone, why anyone would have a problem with that is beyond me.

Thank you Liver bird, for your sensible and insightful comments which contrast sharply with the inane nonsense of some. You might be right, I may achieve nothing, but it’s worth a shot and if I do succeed in getting any kind of greater flexibility to start FT days a little earlier in the term, then I’d imagine there might be a few parents next year who’ll be grateful for that.

[livegreen]

Apologies guy as you've read too much into what I've stated and from your reaction you are really offended if anyone questions your motives.

Why do I think you are undermining the school ?
Well you've emailed 60 other parents on this issue to gain support for your crusade. Not sure how you got their emails - but this would be misuse of emails at most PTFAs. However there is probaly an innocent explanation.
Also calculating time of visits and trying to work out which parents you think need a visit when the school has decided this is their policy seems to be undermining to me.
You may disagree - fine.
Two of my friends are primary heads and several are teachers. They know many parents like you and have their heads in their hands thinking of the extra work and time spent with dealing with well meaning but often I'll informed crusades like yours.
They would much rather spend this time educating all of the children In their care.
Good luck to all the staff at your new school.

[GuyD73]

Pray what am I reading too much into? And yes I’m offended by your questioning of my motives.
Trying to divert attention from your ridiculous claimed omniscience by accusing me of having done something wrong is perhaps the most pathetic thing to date. Just admit you were WRONG, and apologise.
And wrong again, parents at the school approached ME to say they didn’t want a home visit and would much rather have quicker FT care.
Incidentally, last night I got a private message from a lovely lady on here. She’s a single mum and is really upset that the money she’d usually earmark for nice activities with her daughter is going to be eaten up by additional childcare costs. I’d imagine she isn’t terribly well paid for her work as a youth worker, so I really feel for both her and her daughter. That is the kind of person I’m doing this for.
The idea that a family on a low income should have to forgo, perhaps a nice weekend at the seaside, or perhaps even their whole summer holiday because of this archaic and avoidable schedule makes me really quite sad. I wonder if some of the wealthier residents among those saying ‘get over it, it’s only a couple of weeks’, realise that the sums involved in providing this extra childcare for a fortnight are really quite significant to some people, and will impact on their and their children's quality of life. Any 'policy' that inflicts this kind of difficulty on low paid parents simply isn't fit for purpose.

[dudette]

[quote]Trying to divert attention from your ridiculous claimed omniscience by accusing me of having done something wrong is perhaps the most pathetic thing to date. Just admit you were WRONG, and apologise. /quote]

Guy - you are coming across as really rude and aggressive. You asked for people's opinions but when you read a comment that you disagree with you just start firing back vitriol. There is not a clear cut answer to this - yes you make good points but so have other people who disagree with you, many of whom have a lot more experience of the school system than you have. I would also suggest that as a local business person (took me about ten seconds to find your website) you are seriously damaging your brand. Who on earth wants to give business to someone who bullies other users of a public forum? I'm sure you're a nice, caring man but you're not coming across this way at all. Please calm down a bit and think twice about what you have written before you hit submit.

[GuyD73]

Apologies if you don’t like my tone Dudette, but I’ve had some considerable provocation. LiveGreen made an unfounded accusation of wrongdoing (we have each other’s emails as a result of organising a couple of picnics) and also keeps propagating falsehoods without even any retraction when they are shown to be false.

EG – “No-one asked you to represent them” - Well, yes actually, they did!

What I am I supposed to do? Let this go, suck it up, not challenge these false assertions and perhaps let others reading this believe them too? No, I’m afraid I’m going to call them out.

And if, by doing the fairly human thing of getting annoyed when my entirely well-intentioned motives are impugned, or of standing up for principles in which I believe and having forthright views on things, I upset a few people, so be it.

Perhaps you’re right in one way though, and I could do better at keeping my frustrations in check and adopt a somewhat less confrontational tone, which I will endeavour to do, so thank you.

[dudette]

You're welcome

[TCEarlsfield]

Guy, I can totally understand your motives, and I can see where you are coming from with the settling in period, but don't you think how a child is settled in should depend on the needs of the child and not financial considerations?

What you are proposing will likely mean that people make the decision on how their child is settled in based on the cost of childcare/amount of time off required rather than what their child actually needs, which will surely be to the detriment of all of the children in the class.

[GuyD73]

Thanks for your comment and for recognising the integrity of my motivation, TCEarlsfield, I completely agree that that the primary consideration should be the child’s well-being. However, many parents are arguing that their child is 100% ready to start FT school much earlier than the school allows and I respect and share that opinion for my child. I may be being too generous to human nature here but do you honestly think that if any parent believed their child really wasn’t ready for a full school day and would be distressed at having to stay at school 12-3pm in addition to the morning, that they would send them anyway due to financial considerations? I genuinely don’t think there are any parents who’d do this, so a system where people have a small degree of choice in when their child starts FT, should be able to offer everyone a solution that works for them.

[SergeantRebecca]

This is a really interesting thread, with some very valid points.
My daughter starts Primary School in September and she doesn't start until late September because of her age, so I have to find an extra 10 days childcare money so I really sympathise!
I can also understand what a nightmare it would be for the Schools to do it in another way.
It's not at all easy!

[GillNic]

I very rarely post here but I had to reply to this to support the original post. I could not agree more with this and disagree with petal and livebird wholeheartedly. Parents have to be entitled to give their input to schools as to how things like his operate - children's education has to be a team effort between parents and schools. We can't be dictated to, and schools have a responsibility to listen to genuine problems parents have, such as this. The attitude of 'tough, get used to it' is very narrow and frankly completely unhelpful. I am a working Mum and my daughter who was a summer baby so one of the last, and I had an extended settling in period for both nursery and reception, which caused a huge headache. After having to sort out childcare for 6 weeks over summer I then had to try to sort out a complicated arrangement for two more weeks. I spoke to the school and was able to bring her in fulll days a week earlier, which made a massive difference.
I would suggest those of you who are failing to see why this is an issue don't have the same childcare issues, and are clearly failing to put yourself in anyone else's shoes. Schools have changed a lot in the years since women properly entered the workforce, i.e. Breakfast clubs and after school clubs, and there is no reason they can't keep evolving their practices when it makes sense.
I also saw that an extended settling in period only exacerbated the tears and upset of starting school and a short sharp period where they just saw that this was the new reality and got on with it was far better.

[dkm]

I don't think any state primary school aims to please people based on how 'privaliged' people are....

A child starting school is one of the biggest stages of their life so far, - trust the school and what they need to happen to get things to work. A school is there to give a foundation and education to your child, not provide childcare/convenient options for their parents.

As you state, not all situations are the same, some children have already been at the school Nursery, some are confident, some are not.....but they all need to be treated equally...... so they are just trying to do something that works for the whole reception community. You and 'others' may not want a home visit.... maybe your child does?? Maybe there is a child out there that REALLY needs a home visit - They are the ones starting school, not you ..

outrageously teachers are amongst those that are not 'privileged' so I wouldn't have thought they would be trying to penalise anybody!!

You are joining a well trodden path ..... and this I imagine is only the beginning of many things that will frustrate you about the system... embrace it, work with them !! they are there to educate your children - they don't care if the nativity play time doesn't work for everybody etc... that's your responsibility, they are your children. Every school brings them In differently...

Aside from that, you and your school are entering into a long partnership, it works better if you work together and talk to them directly, it will be healthier than calling them out on social media, they wouldn't do that about their frustrations with the parents or the children !!! ....













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[liverbird in london]

As you state, not all situations are the same, some children have already been at the school Nursery, some are confident, some are not.....but they all need to be treated equally...... so they are just trying to do something that works for the whole reception community.

But that's Guy's point. Why do they all need to be treated equally? Not all situations are the same and there are plenty of children - not least those with older siblings - where the first day of school is something they've been looking forward to for months. Why should two or three weeks of half-days be imposed on happy, confident children because it is deemed better for a handful of anxious ones? As Guy and I have said, no one has a problem with those children who find the transition to Reception class difficult being accommodated with half-days weeks for as long as it takes them to get settled.

Maybe there is a child out there that REALLY needs a home visit - They are the ones starting school, not you ..

Yes, maybe there is a child out there who really needs a home visit, and there's no reason why a parent cannot request such a visit if they want it, but again why does it have to be imposed on all?

All Guy and others are asking for is a common sense approach to be taken by their schools regarding a sensible settling-in period instead of an over-engineered protracted session of home visits and half-days.

Interestingly, there is a case of a parent challenging a school over this exact practice in 2013 and the Schools Adjudicator judged in favour of the parent stating that the school had a duty of care to offer their child a full-time place from September. The relevant council (Bournemouth) then wrote to all schools making them aware that they could not enforce staggered starts. See link below.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... rents-work

Not that I'm advocating this approach myself, but it does indicate that the School Adjudicator deemed the school in question to be in breach of the School's Admission Code.

[GuyD73]

Thanks very much for this Liverbird, it's a good and balanced article, and I think it tends to support our shared view that it's possible (and desirable) to provide choice. I've looked into some other threads and there are schools around the country that offer FT and PT in this period depending on parent choice and this should surely be the ambition of any school. I can see no reason why the school can't offer it, or that it should in any way detract from the experience of those who'd like half days for a few weeks.

Only had time to read a handful of the comments but if anyone's genuinely interested to hear what readers think about it, I urge you to read them. I think they show there's perhaps a growing sentiment to say that schools are failing in their responsibilities by NOT offering FT in a timely fashion.

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/1 ... nts-anchor

There are some fairly questionable comments on this article but I agree with this one below Having said that I also agree with the comment on the Grauniad article saying any objection should be 'subtle and respectful', so I'm going to aim for that!

Several parents whose children are more than able to handle full-time schooling have tried all reasonable means to ask the school for the full-time tuition that their children are entitled to. In each case, the school has rejected their requests and provided no good reason other than "this is how we operate". A complaint at this level was necessary for the school to take action.

Note that this ruling does not prevent children from attending school part-time in the same manner as the school previously required. It merely gives parents the choice of full-time education for their children.

I believe this mum has done a great service for the other parents who were facing this issue.

PS. I will be speaking to our LEA about this issue shortly, so will post an update in case it's useful for other parents...

[GuyD73]

Okay, I’ll try and respond to these multiple points as briefly as possible.

Here’s how it works currently at our school. On the first Wednesday of term, the youngest 10 kids in each class go in for half a day, on Thursday the next ten etc. Mine is among the oldest with a September birthday so she’ll do a half day on Friday. That’s all well and good, I’ll say for what feels like the millionth time how I can see how this benefits the younger or more timid children and is a good way of gently easing them into school in smaller groups. However, after that, ALL the children just do mornings for a further 2 weeks, which to my mind (and many others share this view), is completely unwarranted.

So would my child absolutely not benefit? No, I can categorically say she wouldn’t, she is being deprived of the FT education to which she is entitled. And no again, I’m not in any way being ‘difficult and argumentative’ , I believe I’m right about the school needing to offer choice and take into account the needs of working parents which is even enshrined in the admissions code. I am building a consensus and trying to put forward and strong, coherent and evidence-based argument.

Your point about nursery vs school doesn’t make a great deal of sense either. My child has done 8am til 6pm since the age of 6 months and you’re honestly suggesting to me that a 9-3 day at school is somehow more demanding of my child? NO, it’s simply not.

I asked the same question on Mumsnet yesterday which has had 46 comments (I won’t link it here out of respect for the owners of NVN). It’s clear that thousands, possibly tens of thousands of primary schools either offer the choice of PT or FT in the first 3 weeks, or simply go FT from the off in early September. Many don’t bother with home visits and interestingly, some do those home visits in July so that the kids can get straight into it in September – Bravo!

So in short, it can be done very easily and a great many schools do it, I’m just not remotely clear why this school can’t. Without wishing to be confrontational, I’m afraid this FACT completely destroys your argument.

So final point, I called the Department of education yesterday and it seems that schools do have a legal obligation to offer FT education from the start of term, so if a parent requests it, they can’t refuse. You can research the case in Bournemouth which set this precedent by looking at the link in Liver Bird’s comment. So it seems even the law is on my side I’m afraid. Hope this clarifies matters

[rooting4tooting]

We can't even blame the heat for this madness.