Petition to inprove road safety outside Chestnut Grove School... Post Reply

[david.godbehere]

As a parent of children at Chestnut Grove I think some of the comments here are out of order. These are children and it's actually a shame that the road cannot be closed from 3pm to 4pm (there are other roads that will get you there - down past waitrose for instance).
I also think that there is an issue with the positioning of the exit from the school which used to be further up the road prior to the new buildings and the building work. I hope that it will be relocated back there after the old school demolition has been completed which might spread the trail of children out as they leave school.
Removing obstacles is not a bad thing and I'm sure that if bins could be placed in the right place they could be kept - the a-boards are not required though at the end of the day and are easilly moved and put back out later.
No child should be hit by a car -even if they are 'messing about' Perhaps a single barrier outside the current exit might be a good idea (or even a portable one the school could put out). Drivers too should be aware that if they are passing a school coming out - a max speed of perhaps 10 mph would be sensible. After all do you really want to be the one who hurts someone.

[SouthLondonDaddy]

No one has said what caused those 4 accidents, though. Does any one know?

Was it children jumping onto the road without looking? Was it drivers, speeding, using their mobile, etc?

Railings are a stupid idea: they'd be a security hazard in case of an evacuation.

Preventing parking on nearby roads would help visibility making it harder for pedestrians to jump in the middle of the road unseen, and would therefore contribute to making those roads safer. But I guess the owners of the local Chelsea tractors (or should I call them Wandsworth tractors?) would object.

I'm also in favour of campaigns meant to shock children - I think at secondary school they are probably old enough to understand. Remember the ads about "my mate listened to his tracks, but didn't hear the train coming" (or something like that), showing a dead kid with his earbuds still on?

[Sarah McDermott]

Yes, Nightingale councillors have organised a Community Speedwatch with PC Howe (who is in charge of Speedwatch across the borough) for Wednesday 28 March 3-4.30pm. We have to compete for dates - but Nightingale does pretty well on getting in first for many dates.

We are on the case with finding out the best solution for school pupils and residents along the stretch of Chestnut Grove to the tube. I will be raising it at the Balham Town Centre Partnership meeting this evening, I have met the Principle of Chestnut Grove to discuss road safety and Cllr Field has been working with highways officers to tackle things such as ensuring speed markings and roundabouts are clearly painted, drains unblocked so people do not have to step into the road and carriageway potholes and dips mended.

As some of you have commented, it is a narrow stretch of road near a busy tube station and near one of the bridges under the railway line in Boundaries Road so will inevitably have a lot of foot-traffic and vehicle traffic. Let's see if we can make it as safe as possible for all users.

[SouthLondonDaddy]

Easy, tiger!

There is a difference between driving dangerously and driving 1mph above the speed limit. However, it is a difference our legislators must have forgotten about, because the current rules allow zero tolerance: you could in theory be fined a % of your weekly earnings simply for going 1mph above the limit. The reason the rest of the civilised world has some tolerance is because it is common sense that spending more time looking at the speedometer than at the road, to check whether you are doing 18 or 21mph, is counterproductive and actually more dangerous! Oh, and before the holier-than-thou brigade starts yapping that drivers should control their speed etc etc: 1) keeping a constant speed is harder the lower the speed 2) with non-digital speedometers it's not straightforward to be 100% sure whether you're doing 19 or 21 (unless you want to spend more time looking at the speedometer than at the road) 3) some speedometers are daftly designed: they're positioned so low that you must take your eyes off the road.

So, yes, let's be super harsh with the idiots who drive dangerously, but let's also be realistic and accept that 1mph above the limit is not criminal behaviour!

[SouthLondonDaddy]

Easy, tiger!

There is a difference between driving dangerously and driving 1mph above the speed limit. However, it is a difference our legislators must have forgotten about, because the current rules allow zero tolerance: you could in theory be fined a % of your weekly earnings simply for going 1mph above the limit. The reason the rest of the civilised world has some tolerance is because it is common sense that spending more time looking at the speedometer than at the road, to check whether you are doing 18 or 21mph, is counterproductive and actually more dangerous! Oh, and before the holier-than-thou brigade starts yapping that drivers should control their speed etc etc: 1) keeping a constant speed is harder the lower the speed 2) with non-digital speedometers it's not straightforward to be 100% sure whether you're doing 19 or 21 (unless you want to spend more time looking at the speedometer than at the road) 3) some speedometers are daftly designed: they're positioned so low that you must take your eyes off the road.

So, yes, let's be super harsh with the idiots who drive dangerously, but let's also be realistic and accept that 1mph above the limit is not criminal behaviour!

[parsleysong]

He said incidents, not accidents. Can someone explain what the 4 incidents are that have started this petition? Asking as someone who drives past the school regularly, so have a few thoughts on the topic.

[3peasinapod]

Yes, Nightingale councillors have organised a Community Speedwatch with PC Howe (who is in charge of Speedwatch across the borough) for Wednesday 28 March 3-4.30pm. We have to compete for dates - but Nightingale does pretty well on getting in first for many dates.

We are on the case with finding out the best solution for school pupils and residents along the stretch of Chestnut Grove to the tube. I will be raising it at the Balham Town Centre Partnership meeting this evening, I have met the Principle of Chestnut Grove to discuss road safety and Cllr Field has been working with highways officers to tackle things such as ensuring speed markings and roundabouts are clearly painted, drains unblocked so people do not have to step into the road and carriageway potholes and dips mended.

As some of you have commented, it is a narrow stretch of road near a busy tube station and near one of the bridges under the railway line in Boundaries Road so will inevitably have a lot of foot-traffic and vehicle traffic. Let's see if we can make it as safe as possible for all users.

Sarah
Thanks for your attention to this concern. I have children at another local school and have been walking past Chestnut Grove school at the start and end of the school day for many years now. It has undoubtedly become more dangerous since the recent redevelopment changed the flow of pedestrian pupils. There simply is not enough space on the pavement for the number of people trying to use it. I do not think either pupils or drivers are to blame - the facility and infrastructure is simply not fit for purpose and I am disappointed but not surprised to hear there have been incidents.

It is definitely worthwhile running a speedwatch but NOT on 28th March. The impact of private school holidays on traffic along Boundaries Road and Chestnut Grove is HUGE. Please take my word for it as someone who walks and drives those roads every day. It would be a waste of time and resources to run the check on a day that is not representative of the traffic that uses the streets for the majority of Chestnut Grove's term time. Are you able to feed that back to PC Howe?

Car speed is really not the only culprit here though - volume of traffic (cars and pedestrian), numbers of parked cars obscuring views and causing bottlenecks which people then speed through and the location of the main school entrance/exit are all contributing factors. If those can all be addressed in an integrated way considering the wider compounding factors in the area then the situation and safety for all will be vastly improved.

[Sarah McDermott]

'The Parsley Song' - We will go ahead with the Speedwatch on 28 March as we have to compete for sessions with other wards and don't want to let this one go. But your point is well made and we will organise another one at another time too. The police will be monitoring speed but we will also be able to collect evidence of traffic and pedestrian flow - all useful.

[parsleysong]

Hi Sarah, it was 3 peas in a pod rather than me but my thoughts from driving past it regularly for 10 years are that:

1. the school should open it's other exits, such as the back gate on Boundaries and the original one further along Chestnut Grove so they are not all coming out of the same exit. Also, is there one on Ravenslea they could open?
2. give the kids road safety lessons because I've witnessed several incidents of crazy behaviour with out of control kids running on the road into traffic
3. a pedestrian crossing at the corner of Chestnut and Boundaries

The speed of the traffic on Chestnut isn't the issue - I don't think I've ever done over 10 mph on that stretch.

[Goldhawk]

How did the speed watch go? Anyone know?

[Sarah McDermott]

Here are the results of the Community Speedwatch organised by the Nightingale Conservative councillors:

28/03/2018 Chestnut Grove
Recorded – 59
Speeding – 7
Worst Offender – 30mph

21st Feb 2017 at Chestnut Grove.
45 vehicles were speed-gunned.
13 vehicles were being driven 25mph or over. The worst offender being recorded at 31mph.

We will be holding further Speedwatch sessions and are also pushing for enforcement of speeding to be passed from the police to the Council for more consistent and rigorous enforcement

[atbattersea]

In general councils are removing railings as part of the shared spaces plan - gives car users a sense of peril and makes them slow down!

Utter nonsense! It just ends up with more pedestrians in the road and cars on pavements.

We've been doing this experiment in London now for about eight years, I'd like to see the stats that support this as a road safety improvement.

[atbattersea]

…enforcement of speeding to be passed from the police to the Council for more consistent and rigorous enforcement

The main problem here is that all of the local schools have a problem with traffic, on way or another - even if that's just double parking or parking on the zigzags outside schools. But no one really wants to do anything about it, other than the occasional police/warden presence a couple of days a year.

[rooting4tooting]

…enforcement of speeding to be passed from the police to the Council for more consistent and rigorous enforcement

The main problem here is that all of the local schools have a problem with traffic, on way or another - even if that's just double parking or parking on the zigzags outside schools. But no one really wants to do anything about it, other than the occasional police/warden presence a couple of days a year.

you cannot police a flood. The solution lays in making a new separate exit or closing the sixth form and only using St Francis Xavier

[balhammomma]

Are you aware that developers have recently applied to Wandsworth council to build 28 residential properties on the old Balham bowling green? The entrance and only access to this is from Chestnut Grove, opposite the school where the TK Maxx entrance is (a few meters up from Old Dairy Mews.)

https://planning.wandsworth.gov.uk/WAM/ ... =2018/1741

I have numerous objections to this; mainly that an extremely rare green sporting space be changed to residential use and lost forever to future generations. However if I stick to the topic of road safety on Chestnut Grove;

+ the access point to this development is on the busiest stretch of Chestnut Grove, at rush hour times cars line up from the High Road back to the second roundabout. This development will add to the heavy congestion.

+ access will add another risk to safety of the high footfall traffic in this area, with resident cars continually accessing at this highly congested point.

Should you wish to object to this development you can do so via the link above.

Application no. 2018/1741