Honeywell School or local private prep? Post Reply

[livegreen]

It is always best to look at the evidence rather than apply common sense.

The studies on whether small class size makes a difference to outcomes are inconclusive at best with most saying it makes little difference - google it and you could probably find a report that agrees with your view but generally little impact except that - small class size will help very young children from deprived backgrounds. Most studies agree on this point - the children who would benefit most are those that actually need extra help BUT of course our private preps do not help children from deprived background - they leave this to state schools.

There is a lot of Emporers new clothes syndrome about thie impact of private education. - there are a lot of studies - read them and draw your own conclusions.

If you have chosen Private you want to believe it gives your child a benefit and it does in terms of nice facilities - however in most other measures it has little impact.
The most interesting studies of recent years carried out by Oxbridge, Durham and the Sutton trust concludes that students from state schools do better at university than their peers with similar qualifications from private schools - overall they have been better prepared for university- more resilient and less spoon feeding..

Good luck in your choices but do not worry too much -if you care your children will be fine at any of our excellent schools.

[Vhopeful]

Livegreen you need to relax a little, I was simply stating my view that I feel that a teacher must find it easier to teach 20 kids as opposed to 30. I have not carried out a PHD on the topic and as I mentioned school choice is personal.
We all make the decisions we feel are best for our kids and as a parent that is all you can do. Some kids thrive in state schools and some in private and vice versa.
As long as your child is happy wherever he/she is all that really matters.

[The NSC]

Actually a dad: is this you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Kum8OUTuk

The language of monaaay!

Cheers.

[Flowermummy]

Maybe in general private schools are better than state.
But when you compare a just a few, for a child who will have their own personality/likes/dislikes...I'm afraid it's not that straightforward and you cannot generalise that any private school is better than any state school. The obvious example being... what if your private school option is single sex and you are quite sure your child would enjoy co-ed?!

It's been said many times on this forum, go with your gut feel. I think it's definitely true, as there isn't a universally right or wrong answer.

[actuallyadad]

Even if some people think that schools with smaller class sizes, better facilities and better exam results may not be over "better" (ok each to their own,), the point is that nobody thinks state schools are better than private schools!

So like I said before, if you can afford it, why wouldn't you do it?

[Claphamconery]

I have heard great things about Honeywell and Belleville. Sadly we are the wrong side of the common! Just jumping on to defend the ‘royal schools’ by which I assume you mean Thomas’s? We are very happy with it and the parents are honestly very nice and normal. I have made a few genuine mates which I wasn’t expecting and would happily have coffee with anyone in dd class. Lots of working parents, no mention of second homes!

[Claphamconery]

And most importantly dd is super happy

[cantcomplain]

Even if some people think that schools with smaller class sizes, better facilities and better exam results may not be over "better" (ok each to their own,), the point is that nobody thinks state schools are better than private schools!

I think state schools are 'better'. But I think we are after different things.

And I agree with Fraser Nelson in The Spectator who said about the private sector:

It’s sometimes better, and a lot of the time it’s worse.

I'm not bothered about fabulous, shiny, 'better' facilities for my already a little bit over-privileged children (OK, maybe at our holiday resort I am).

And actually, exam results reveal that the best state schools have pulled ahead of the best private schools (The Economist - 2016) and that year-on-year that gap is widening

There's a lot to be said for being in a more diverse and less fabulous environment as well; kids learn something from that.

As local writer John O'Farrell said recently about his own kids' state education;

...they have gained an understanding of how society works that you could never get in an institution from which most of society is excluded.

albeit having probably missed out on a

...rugger trip to Johannesburg along the way.

I'm not suggesting you shouldn't choose to send your children privately (and apologies to the OP for butting in a bit unhelpfully) but I'm not sure you'll get a better education for your money - though maybe a more exclusive one.

Here's John O'Farrell's article if you fancy a read:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... ot-private

[Claphamconery]

Interesting example! He started his own academy and was chair of governors ( then left when his kids did). Not exactly the experience most people will have of state education is it now?

[firsttimerSW11]

Love the comment in John O’Farrell’s piece about Osbourne only being chancellor because of his friendship with the then PM rather than any financial genius. One wonders, had Labour gotten into power at that time, would financial genius that was the then shadow chancellor (ex postman) Alan Johnson have fared any better?

And I wouldn’t send any child of mine to Lambeth Academy if you paid me.

<misses point of thread>

[Scientist]

I will share another observation - as a parent of children who went through both private and Honeywell schools.

There is much more parental involvement at Honeywell - from school matters & fund raising, to managing children. At the private schools, there is an assumption on the part of parents that, having paid all that money, the school should jolly well get on with the job and not make too many demands on those who are keeping it afloat.

I noticed also that the private schools give out much more homework than Honeywell (which incidentally takes the Finnish line and doesn't really believe in homework). This may explain why private school pupils are much better prepared than their state counterparts for selective entry at age 11 - they have, simply, done more work and covered more ground. Yes we all know about tutoring but it is wrong to assume that as many private school pupils are tutored, they aren't: only the ones with specific subject problems, or in some cases the super bright who are going for scholarships to St Paul's Girls etc. The majority don't need tutoring - that's why they went to 'prep' school, to be prepared for entry to the next level. Honeywell does many good things, but that doesn't include prepping for selective entry.

[local yokel]

you are very fortunate to have the choice of schools. As a state school teacher for many years at secondary and 6th form level, I observed a struggle with social deprivation, children who don't speak English as their first language, children who need special support that the local EA doesn't supply. Disruptive kids. My own children survived it, they would have had better grades at A level if they had gone private/public and a more academic education. They learned other things, particularly about life and how most of the population live.

I feel its morally wrong to use a brilliant state school where teachers are paid less and have to deal with social problems etc etc to then go on to a public school. Chances are your daughter would make a valuable contribution to the ethos of a state school, by virtue of her upbringing and your own social status. There are many children who live close to the school who can't get a place; Leave it for them

[Scientist]

Local Yokel - you make a good point and in spite of the fact I only made a comment on this topic for the benefit of those who need information, I am minded to reply to your specific points.

I would point out the obvious, but neglected, fact that most of the people who go private - whether it be schooling, medical care, transport etc. - are doing so largely at their own additional cost. They are already (one has to make this assumption) paying higher taxes than those who suffer 'social deprivation', some of which tax revenue goes into funding the state provision of basic services which those on subsistence incomes need.

The affluent are just as entitled to use our NHS, state schools etc as anyone else. Yet, despite this, they pay extra to have access to private services such as education and medical care. They receive no tax rebate from the government for the state provision they have relinquished - in effect, they are paying double.

Many parents I have met who could afford to go private all the way opted for Honeywell as they wanted their children to experience a truly local school and to mix with other children across the socio-economic spectrum. Honeywell doesn't choose pupils on the basis of their family's economic circumstances, but purely on the basis of residential proximity to the school. I have always thought - rightly or wrongly - that one of the main reasons for the school's ranking is precisely due to its situation in a 'good neighbourhood'. If you put the same school in a troubled inner city area, who is to say that it would do as well ?

But in any event, it would be wrong to discriminate against families who have a comfortable economic profile. All that would do is to force those families to migrate entirely to the private sector. Then, there would be no mixing of classes and creeds and surely, we would all be worse off as a result.

[K1999]

Apologies if I am repeating anything already said. I haven't had the chance to read through all the posts.

Both of my kids started at Honeywell. My son was struggling as easy to be ignored in a large class. The teacher at the time didn't seem that interested in the kids who were not doing as well, so we moved him to an all boys private prep school. That school then got him tested and he is dyslexic, so we made the right decision as state schools don't have the provisions to provide a lot of learning support. He also got to do loads of sport, which he loved, and we watched him thrive, so I know we made the right decision.

We moved our daughter to a private school in Y5 so we could miss the bun fight for private secondary schools in year 6. She is much stronger academically but has also thrived.

On reflection, I would say that Honeywell is a great school, as long as your kids are bright. The parents (myself included) ended up using Kumon to help with english and maths, and there were a lot of Honeywell parents there whenever I went every week. We never used a tutor but I knew a lot of parents who were booked to use a tutor (or were already using one) by year 4. So you will need to be prepared to put the work in to keep your child on the ball, as the private schools and good secondary schools will expect high results in the entrance exams.

In Honeywell the classes stay the same all the way through the school from Reception to Year 6. Having seen the private schools change the classes every year, it means the kids end up knowing everyone in their year, and are learning to make new friends all the time. I found that kids in the same class every year could get very clicky (and so could the parents). Great if you get on with your class mates and parents, but if not, you've got a long time ahead. So much more refreshing to have a class change every year.

I was worried what the private school parents would be like. You are always going to get certain parents who are social climbers, but I was also pleasantly surprised to meet some really lovely, normal parents as well. It may also depend on what school you go to, as I do know some have a reputation for being very competitive.

Hope this helps.

[K1999]

I'm just curious, but is there a reason Honeywell don't have an ofsted report since 2010? Does that mean they haven't been checked, or have just chosen not to post on the website?