Wandsworth Resident parking permits - no renewal reminder and a parking ticket? Post Reply

[jingo_x]

Back in August I realised while I was on holiday that I had missed the renewal of my parking permit.  It ran out on the 14th while I was away and I only realised on the 22nd.  I tried to renew online but all my details had been deleted and I needed to upload my V5, proof of address etc and didn't have any of those with me. That day I received a parking ticket in my absence.   I was surprised not to have received a reminder to renew in July as I have for the last 7 years, either by e-mail or post.  I appealed against the ticket on the grounds it was an honest mistake and rightly or wrongly I had come to rely on the reminder from Wandsworth to renew.  I also provided evidence that I had tried to renew online, but as my details had been deleted I couldn't.

My appeal was rejected with a blunt letter and since then I have heard anecdotally that this has happened to a large number of Wandsworth residents.  Having posted on a local Facebook group I have found a large number of people caught out by the lack of reminders (interestingly we all received the same blunt letter with the same wording_. What I have learned is that everyone gets a 7 day grace period after expiry (which is only useful if you know you have it), then your details get deleted from the system and you get issued with a parking ticket.

Everyone I have heard from has received a ticket and then had to apply for a completely new permit, uploading all their documents again.  Most people only get one ticket because they are not trying to avoid buying a permit and the ticket acts as the 'reminder'! However, processing all of these 'new' applications takes up valuable time for residents and WBC and I processing all the appeal responses also seems like a waste of time rather than accepting that there has been a glitch in the renewal reminder system since it was migrated to a new provider in May.

I am planning to go to adjudication to appeal against my ticket and to try and stop this happening to others and would love to hear from you if you have been through the same thing. It seems like a rubbish way to make extra money out of residents who have renewed their permits on time for many years and relied on a reminder system that previously worked. Staff at the Town Hall openly admit that there have been numerous issues with the new system and I do think that WBC should be waiving these parking tickets when they can see a residents complete renewal history and can see there is a genuine mistake.

Anyone else been caught out?
 

[Del]

Hello, exactly same thing happened to me last year.
I challenged the ticket and my request was declined on the ground that a reminder email was sent (never seen that email) and that it is the responsibility of the car owner to renew permit on time...
like you I completely forgot the renewal date and was relying on a reminder letter like I used to receive in the past.
Not good !

[chorister]

I don't know if it helps much but on their website it says that reminders come from DoNotReply_Wandsworth@tarantocloud.com which could easily be mistaken for junk mail, and it asks you to mrk it as a 'safe sender'.  It can't do any harm to do so, and may save this sort if nonsense.

[njm123]

Hate parking tickets given for this reason. I received a ticket in similar circumstances but many years ago so can’t blame the new system for failure to issue a reminder. I contested my ticket at the time but WBC failed to budge as they have it written in the small print that they can’t guarantee a reminder will be sent and it is up to the car owner to ensure they renew on time. You may therefore not win on adjudication and have to pay the higher fine? I suggested then that the wardens could issue a first ticket which would be a warning reminder only but they dismissed that. I assume reminders will now only be sent by email rather than post which in theory should be more reliable but I didn’t receive an e-reminder this year either. Luckily I realised and went on-line and renewed (without problems to be fair and it arrived quite quickly). I think the safest thing now is to set a reminder on your phone or wherever several weeks before your permit is due - you can then go online and renew in advance (I did mine several weeks before as I was spooked by stories about the useless new system but it was fine) rather than rely on getting a reminder -as they seem to be a thing of the past sadly. I really hope this is not a cynical ploy by the Council to get more fines! Good luck, will be interested to hear how you get on.

[crackers]

I got caught by the very same situation, was issued a PCN which I appealed and (after a very long time) was rejected, so I coughed up. Very frustrated about it as felt as you did, that it wasn’t fair to penalise residents for learning to rely on the annual reminder by email as it had always, until this year, been 100% reliable hence I hadn’t made a diary notebook for many years to WBC. Before appealing I spoke to WBC and had an interesting chat with their advisor who urged me to appeal as the system was desperately understaffed over the summer and in chaos with the glitches as they migrated their system. He advised me to mention that I had a gmail email address as nobody received e-reminders to gmail. He also said he was making a note on my record at his end to this effect. I actually thought the PCN would be waived given the conversation with him! Sadly not and I paid because of the (unethical) disincentive to settle at a lower amount if you don’t appeal further - a practice that I don’t believe should be allowed! Like you, I do not think it’s fair that we should be penalised for their tech issues! I have been buying resident permits since 2003, have never been issued a PCN for an expired one until this year and don’t feel they have acted fairly at all. Good luck with the adjudication, I admire your commitment and happy to help further if of use.

[addled]

I paid because of the (unethical) disincentive to settle at a lower amount if you don’t appeal further - a practice that I don’t believe should be allowed!

From personal experience with Wandsworth and Lambeth, if you challenge the PCN within the 14 day period then you still get the discount regardless of whether you appeal or not, if you challenge after the 14 day period you don't.

[jevcg]

Yup - two parking tickets issued last week (we don't use our car in the week so didn't notice the first) - we got no renewal and had to upload all of our documents again. Beyond frustrating. 

[Jonny Dyson Property Consultants]

I had exactly the same experience this summer.  I went on holiday leaving the car at the airport, got home and parked outside the house only to find a ticket on the windscreen later the same day.  There was no reminder and to add insult to injury I then had to re-load all my documents as they have changed systems.  I appealed and genuinely assumed that the ticket would be cancelled, even attaching flight details showing I had been away, but like other posters on here, received a gruff letter telling me where to go.  I have paid as otherwise if I appeal at this point I lose the opportunity to benefit from the discount.  It's utterly ridiculous in my opinion.

Jonathan

[Inthecommons]

Yes, we were caught out in September. Exact same scenario. We have appealed.

[jingo_x]

Thank you all for sharing your similar experiences and frustrations.  I have collected so many similar tales here and on local Facebook groups that I am convinced something needs to change and WBC cannot keep turning a blind eye to this.  I'd encourage others to stand their ground as well so that the adjudicator will see the extent of the problem.

I provided good evidence with my appeal that I had e-mailed the parking queries inbox and sent a message to Wandsworth Council via Facebook when I was trying to renew 3 hours after the expiry of my 'grace period'.  All that evidence has all been ignored and a standard 'tough luck' rejection letter sent.  At this point I don't really care if the fine is £55 or £110, but I do want this to stop for other people's sake - even if all I achieve is to get Wandsworth to send an e-mail to all residents to tell them to start keeping track of their own renewal date because their own system is flawed.  Annoyingly I used to keep a record of the date when I first moved here from Lambeth, but got out of the habit because the reminder system worked so well!

I raised a Freedom of Information request back on the 12th October to try and find out how much money the council has made from fines to residents whose permits have lapsed.  Sadly it took 17 days to get an acknowledgement e-mail from the FOI department so not sure how long it will take.  If anyone else wants to ask for information the e-mail address is foiw@richmondandwandsworth.gov.uk 
 

[Tjp1977]

Same thing happened to me - I had pretty good grounds for contesting, and it still got rejected and we’ve had 3 parking tickets subsequently. I’ve got off 2, but they wouldn’t budge on the first. Their whole system is a shambles

[SouthLondonDaddy]

It would also be interesting to ask, via FOI:

how much the transition to the new parking IT system cost
if the cost went over budget
why it all went so horribly wrong and what the council has done about it

There were quite a few threads on this. The new IT parking system has been a total disaster.

[forfun]

This happened to me too and didn't get excused and had to pay the fine. I have lived at the same address since the parking permits were first introduced. In the beginning the council sent out reminders in the post and then reminders by email -apparently now it is up to us to remember?! I would like to point out that for the last 3 years the free 10 visitor parking permits that we are entitled to never automatically come with the new permit. I have to literally call and also send several emails.  I was told by the council that  some people might not want them-really ?!  Who on earth would not want them for visitors if you pay for having a parking permit?!  Pretty lame excuse in my books . Secondly there is no box to tick to receive them when you make your new permit application, this makes it a struggle and I think most people give up. Considering they are worth £30 , I would say most people would [and should ]automatically receive them for friends, family and workmen.This last time , I asked for both myself and my husband and had to write to the head of the council and complain as I was not getting anywhere. The excuse was that there were system errors with Parking -hmm-I'd say that there has been for a long time ! I said something was not right-and had an apology and they arrived. Surely it should not be made to be this hard for us, and needs sorting -don't offer if they don't intend to give them and send us a reminder . I'd imagine many residents have  had these problems? Don't make us pay for their bad system.

[Emma_gulson]

Exact same thing happened to me - got 3 tickets while away on holiday, and they let me off 2 but refused to budge on the last one. So I am refusing to pay and sending "representations" later today - after that I assume it will go to court, which I am not sure how I will do given I have just had a knee op and also have a 20 month old! - and apparently you sit around for hours waiting for your court appearance - but I really think this is totally unfair and as jingo_x says, we need to start standing up to them and letting them know they can't get away with it....

[chorister]

Emma_gulson:  I don't know if this applies to Wandsworth parking tickets, but I once appealed against a TFL penalty for stopping in a yellow hatched box (and won:  the CCTV showed a mother with a buggy jumping the pedestrian lights, so I had the option to stop or run her over).  I was very impressed by the process, which was before an independent QC and was careful and methodical and fair.  I was given ample time to present my case and felt it was listened to carefully.

I don't know if it is the same process for Wandsworth parking (it may not be) so I suggest as a first step that you ask them how the appeal process works in practice ie who hears the appeal, where is it, how long etc.  If it is the same as TFL then firstly don't worry too much about the process, and secondly get all your evidence together carefully and methodically, with as much in writing as possible and notes of the points you want to make verbally.  Then go through it with a friend, to make sure it all holds together.  Don't rely on a hard luck story - get evidence eg if you have had reminders before, but not this time etc.

Good luck