In-laws voted leave. They've removed my children's freedom of movement and I can't cope with seeing them any longer... Post Reply

[GuyD73]

 My in-laws voted leave and appear to be unrepentant about it. The family on my partner’s side has collectively agreed to avoid ANY discussion about Brexit at all, for the sake of maintaining cordial relationships, and this has avoided any ructions since June 2016. However, the second reading of the Immigration bill yesterday reminded me that their vote specifically removes my kids’ freedom to live in work in 27 other countries, a right my partner and I have enjoyed all our lives, and I’m not sure I can cope with it any more.  If I can’t bring myself to spend time in their company, it will cause enormous stress and discord in my relationship with my partner, her siblings and their partners, but it will at least convey my strength of feeling and demonstrate to them that their actions have consequences.  I would never try and stop them from seeing their grand-children, they will simply have to do it without my involvement. I will also make it very clear that if the atmosphere of xenophobia and intolerance in the UK continues, and we can find a way to make a living and raise our kids elsewhere in the world, then there’s a very good chance we will take it. It feels like a drastic step to take but we all have to take measures to protect our own mental health and we have to take sometimes difficult decisions as to the best environment in which to raise our families.  One only has to listen to radio for 5 minutes or watch Question Time to see that many supporters of Brexit refuse to acknowledge the facts of our current predicament, however demonstrable they may be, so I’m not going to waste any time trying to convince them of the error of their position. Given we may get another referendum in the coming months, this doesn’t leave many options other than being honest about how the future will look and what our family may decide to do, if Brexit does go ahead. Is anyone else in this quandary? Does what’s happening to the country make you feel sick or angry to the point of deleterious mental health? Are you taking any practical steps to insure your family against the vicissitudes of Brexit? (All I can think of is starting the kids on intensive French and Spanish).  Any advice, thoughts or commiserations are very welcome.      

[SW12Pops]

So so hard.

But if I am honest I think you have to suck it up.

We are a democracy - you disagree with their vote but that's how democracy works - how would you feel if in a generations time your children's partners wouldnt talk to you because of your beliefs?

If they married into a religious family who refused to engage with you - a non believer, for example?

Or if you are religious the other way around?

It hurts but that is the beauty of the West - we allow others to be different...

[lalectrice]

I feel as passionately as you do about this issue, but would advise you not to create what you acknowledge would be major family discord by cutting ties with your in-laws. At the end of the day, your kids and partner are more important than politics. Your kids especially, however mature or articulate they might be, will not properly understand your reasons for having nothing to do with the grandparents they love, and will potentially feel conflicted about their own relationship with their mum's parents as a result. Brexit is the most sinister, gut-wrenching and lamentable event, but in my view you must put your sense of this in a box whilst socialising with your in-laws. They have shown willing by agreeing not to discuss the issue. If you aspire to the values represented by Europe - tolerance, compromise, mutual understanding - then you must do the same, for the sake of your kids.

[chorister]

It's really rough, but in the end the sun will still rise, your children will still love you and life will go on.  When you feel at your wit's end, just remember the old aphorism - "there's no one as intolerant as a proselytising liberal".  It may help you to remember that others have their own legitimate points of view, informed as much by their experiences and prejudices as are yours.  And I write this as a rabid Remainer who still clings to the hope that it won't happen.

[Goldhawk]

Surely you are being intolerant?
Why must they repent?
Why not stick to the not discussing Brexit plan?

If you didn't know how they voted then all would be well?
 

[dudette]

There was a brilliant article in the Sunday Times a couple of weeks ago by Decca Aitkenhead talking about how important it is to have friends who have different views from ourselves (she was responding to John McDonnell saying how he could never be friends with a Tory). It's worth stumping up to get through the pay wall to read it and hopefully will give you food for thought. Suffice it to say, while I'm with you on Brexit being a disaster, you shouldn't equate people's opinions with their personality. I know you trade in fish for a living. A lot of vegans out there would probably wonder how you could earn your crust from something that causes so much pain and suffering to living creatures. If one of your children became a vegan in later life would she be within her rights to cut off contact with you because of what you do? Hopefully she'll be able to separate the fish issue from the father who clearly adores her, but if you cut off contact with your in-laws you'll be teaching her that it's OK to put principle above everything else, including family ties. People didn't vote for Brexit out of malice any more than you trade in fish to cause deliberate harm to them. By refusing to deal with people who don't share your viewpoint, you are I'm afraid guilty of the same intolerance you accuse your in-laws of. 

[juliantenniscoach]

Get over it.  You are obviously passionate about it but hey ho you know what?  It's a First World problem.  There was an anniversary yesterday of real intolerance, real hatred with real victims.  Brexit is a bump in the road.

[abfab]

As someone whose parents put strongly held political views above personal relationships: however strongly you feel, you need to demonstrate to your children that people can agree to differ respectfully.  It is so damaging to teach your children that those with opposing views to your own are not to be tolerated, and so important to show them how to extend tolerance, empathy and love.  

As Jo Cox said: "We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us".

On a related note, if this is really affecting your mental health, you should seek professional help.  

[NVHusband]

You do realise you come across as rather intolerant of people who have different views to you?
Last time I checked, we live in a democracy which allows you to have an opinion and to exercise your right to vote.
What’s worse, you are linking unrelated xenophobic views of random people to your in laws. Talk about tarring people with the same brush. Do you not see the irony nor hypocracy of your post?

You also state people don’t know the facts, yet your other post re Marsha highlights you’ll rather have Jeremy Corbyn as PM than a Brexit. A man supported by a nasty anti Semitic far left. Not a single respected businessman supports him. Ample research has come out that stated business fear Jeremy Corbyn more than No Deal Brexit. How’s that for facts?!

If I were your in laws, I’d be worried about the lesson you are teaching their grand kids- be tolerant of others, as long as they share your views.

You need to get a sense of perspective. And now.

Keep Calm and Carry On.

[sw1234]

Same issue in our house. My husband and I voted remain but my parents and in-laws voted leave. They still stand firm in their views that a no deal brexit is the best way forward! I find it hard to process but I respect their views. We don’t discuss it much now as my husband in particular gets wound up. I think until the fog clears we don’t really fully know the impacts or which way things will turn. Do not fall out with anyone over this kind of nonsense, it’s really not worth it! Focus on all the other positives in your life, your kids, partner etc! Good luck,

[HR2611]

You ask for advice and thoughts...mine would be that rather than regularly asking for views from strangers across local social media sites to try to validate your point of view and obvious anger, perhaps you should focus on speaking to your partner and real life friends. Your partner and friends are the people who know you and who’s views should matter to you. Perhaps they can help you gain some perspective and avoid causing damage to your family relationships as a result of your own intolerance towards others who hold different views to you. Be wary of the old saying, blood is thicker than water.

Also, if your fears about Brexit are affecting you to the extent of making you sick and impacting on your mental health, you should perhaps step away from the internet and speak to a professional. It is well known that despite its many benefits, social media can have negative effects too and is very easy to get caught up in a whirlwind of views and opinions which will only feed your anger and upset, and get your knickers in even more of a twist!

I may well be incorrect in my assumption but given how regularly you post about anti-Brexit matters, it would seem to be a major focus of your life. Unless you are very good at switching off and letting go of your tension and anger at home, that’s far more likely to negatively impact on your children than maybe in the future having to get a visa to go to France and having to stand in a different line at passport control.

[sloaney donkey]

To let such a divide ruin your view of life, and to take such a one-sided view (disclaimer:- I am a Labour voter who voted remain) is crazy, in my opinion.

To play devils advocate (not my views, just to provide some balance in your own mind, if not to your own article):-

What about the view that the EU has been a big burden on our industries? Have forced policies on the UK that just don't work? Make it difficult for us to trade with our commonwealth? Do not take into account th sacrifice we made in 1914-18 and 1939-45 to make Europe a better place? My late mother lost three brothers in the Normandy landings - two cut down by German machine guns and bled to death within 100m of one another - the UK could have joined Europe 1940-45 to avoid those terrible, terrible losses.

I have worked in Brussels as an interpreter and know first hand how Brussels work. Look at the bureaucrats and their lavish salaries and even more lavish lpensions. And their obscene expense accounts (check out My claims if you have a chance ...).

How about your in laws vote conservative and you vote Labour. And your in laws were the people who kept out Michael Foot (his famous suicide note?), Neil Kinnock and John Smith. And helped secure this country's prosperity. Would you hold that against them???

If that is how you feel then I suggest you go to some other countries and see how far you get. My guess is that the immigration people wouldn't let you in if you were so radical as to cite opposing views to govt policy.

Live and let live. And if you don't like it, go to North Korea. and be careful what you wish for.

(I am a 48 percenter and proud of it!)

Have a nice day.

Sloaney Pony

[sloaney donkey]

By the way, I think the whole country if fed up with Brexit and a lot of real issues have not had parliamentary time because of it.

People just want one thing or another. Not endless debate. And pointless front pages.

I just want to either stay in or 'go hard out'

Let's call it a day.

[sloaney donkey]

BTW, what is the betting on Nappy Valley house prices falling 20% under 'no deal'?

See what happens to school fees then !

And see what happens to Land Rover thefts (answer:- there'll be no new ones as people can't get credit when their bank knows they are in negative equity and their high-paid finance job has gone to the other end of the Eurostar line)

[shocked]

I am going to come in your defence. I understand what you mean and I think that your problem is that you have principles and struggle with the lack of.

These days we are seeing many people including some of the above saying that we are intolerant if we dont accept other people's opinions. Which is a way of justifying having a xenophobic, racist, misogynistic ideas. They are just opinions right? No they are not. They are nasty attitudes. Of course we are all allowed to be nasty but we should be called on it. Not doing it is allowing it. Think Germany in the 30s...

Freedom of opinion does not mean there is no more right and wrong. A way of checking if what we think is decent, is to look at the declaration of human rights and principles many countries after a war that killed 60 million people decided we should abide by. 

However, your parents in law voting Leave is not the worst crime. There are lot worse. They are just not very kind. But, them not wanting to talk about it is another example of nastiness never wanting to take responsibility for its actions. 

What I would do is ignore their requests. Why should you obey them? And use sense of humour. 

When all goes tits up (and it will if it is a hard brexit), send them a text message: "Well done! What is your solution now?" If they ask you not to text again, tell them. " I do whatever the F I want like you do." If they block you phone, send them letters with newspapers cuts. If they say it is upsetting, tell them you know the feeling...

Good luck, but it is ****.