In-laws voted leave. They've removed my children's freedom of movement and I can't cope with seeing them any longer... Post Reply

[ClaphamPkorNot?!]

Just Wow.
Preamble: remain voter.  Voted labour until JC turned up, now can't. Love DEBATING Brexit with friends and family cos I want to understand why.  Don't agree but I respect their views (else why should they respect mine?!).  Wish we could stay, don't disagree with your points as to why its crap. etc Wife feels the same; but if I attacked her family, I'd get dropped quicker than a hot-brick.  

I'm amazed at your stance OP.  
It's important, but we have to get on with our loved ones.  Maybe you don't love your in-laws and this is a good cover.  Whatever, it's only going to cause domestic disharmony. Are you potentially prepared to divorce over this? 

I love debating Brexit with friends and family. I'm still trying to understand why people are v comfortable with leaving with the economic down-curve we're about to see, but I'm certainly not going to fall out with anyone. Basically, some people don't think Europe is nirvana and  would rather rules were made here vs economic prosperity, but then that's their view.  We don't have to agree with them.  There will no doubt be a debate in five years' time about re-joining something.   

I still see my parents and my in-laws (all voted leave) and we talk about other stuff. I still talk and see friends and their family and play golf with those that voted leave (and by the way, we all think Dave Cameron should have tried harder).  If I only ever discussed Brexit with people that were bored by it all (and most people are - which is a crap reason for accepting whatever the outcome is, but hey ho), I doubt they'd want to see me.  

Yes, I sometime slip into an echo chamber and swap disbelief with like minded individuals, but it's pretty much going to happen. But importantly, they're not my family.  Develop two ways to air your views, v British but necessary when you live in Britain, one that is what you believe and air it in space where people agree with you, and one v toned down for people to know what you think but don't ram it down their throat, that really is fascist. 

Focus on relationships.  In five years' time it will have happened.  It will be a bit or a lot crap, but it will have happened.  You need to be able to call on those around you, or you'll be v lonely and quite possibly single with or potentially without access rights to your kids.

And for god's sake (I'm a lapsed Jew) leave the kids out of it.  Give them principles and explain your values, but don't shove it down their throats.  You'll come to regret that when they turn 20 and potentially think you're a pr*&^k.  You can only guide your kids, you've got to leave it to them to work out what's important to them.  Believe me (see line one of this para).

And to echo what other people have said, if you can't do this on your own, get some help.  You'll be amazed at what 6 sessions of counselling can achieve.  You won't stop believing what you do, but you'll be able to be happier about it all.  

Be happy.  It's clear you're not.

[putters]

I agree 100% with the OP, and have had minimal contact with my parents for the last few months as a result.  They both believed the lies of the leave campaign, and simply did not think about their children or grandchildren when casting their vote.  I have not stopped them seeing my son, but have made it very clear how I feel and why.  I actually think they regret their vote now, but are perhaps embarrassed to tell me.  My next step is to bring up how badly Brexit is going in conversation (away from my son, of course), and get their current thoughts.  I'll go from there, and be a little bit proud of them if they have changed their minds.  In the meantime I'll protest outside parliament as much as I am able, which does help with my mental health.

I voted to remain in the EU as we already have the best 'deal', for less than 1% of our taxes.  Our rights as EU citizens will be taken away from us.  If it goes ahead, the end of March would be the start of the beginning: decades of negotiations and compromises, with parliament unable to focus on the issues that really matter, such as welfare, education etc.  It simply isn't in the national interest.  These are not opinions, but facts.

How would leaving the EU benefit you?  It won't.  Stop Brexit.

[CommonGuy]

Putters
Oh dear, did Mummy and Daddy not think about poor you when they voted. I'm sure you are right that they are embarrassed but I suggest it is not about they way they voted. If when you raise it with them they haven't changed their minds perhaps you could try lying on the floor and shouting and screaming. However. be aware you may be left disappointed in them again. Fear not though as you can comfort yourself with the fact you are right.

[reggieb]

OP, while I can completely empathise how distraught you are feeling now - based on both outrage over a huge injustice in the events of the past, and your fears for the future, I really have to urge keeping a level head. 

I previously thought Trump being elected was *the worst* thing that could have happened. I was in tears, I was genuinely devastated and was really despairing for the future of my country. I had a very fraught relationship for many months with my parents, who voted for him. I spent ages trying to reconcile how Christians who have two daughters could advocate having such a horrible person for a leader, and if they truly believed in him, what that really said about them as people. It took so many angry discussions and emails before we finally agreed to just not discuss it. We have vastly different priorities, and while I cannot understand their views, they cannot understand mine either. I knew they didn't vote the way they did to ruin my life or to make the life of others so horrific - they simply chose to overlook issues that didn't affect them. Now, I'm not excusing that at all, and I think we have a real responsibility to make the world a better place for others, but people by nature are selfish. While it's genuinely beyond comprehension to me how they could have voted for that putrid orange maggot of a human, it is their choice, and I have to just take solace that things will right themselves in the end. 

As devastated as I was on election night, the world has not ended. YES, some of the things he has done have been horrific, I'm not saying otherwise at all. But... we also have elected the most diverse set of Congresspeople in history, and I feel there has been such a shift on a grassroots level to shift the movement back the other way, it has given me hope all over again. 

I think you need to hope for the same for your sake, and for your families sake. I don't disagree at all that Brexit was devastating, and will take many years to recover from, economically and otherwise. However, channel your outrage into good. Volunteer for refugee shelters, campaign for more transparent elections - make a difference and throw your efforts into countering what Brexit is tearing apart. Otherwise I feel your family will just be added to it's wake of destruction. 

[atbattersea]

It seems that everyone is pretty much in agreement here, just lump it! I think that is really the only reasonable response. If you think about it, just over half the people who voted in the referendum wanted to leave - are you really going to ask everyone you meet what they voted for, and then refuse to talk to them?

Personally, I'm in a slightly worse position than you - my parents voted to leave. I really resented them doing that, especially when I really made the effort to respond to all their prejudices and explained to them the effect it would have on their grandchildren. But they couldn't listen to reason, and they really didn't have any real logical reasons that they wanted to leave - they thought that the UK should never have joined the EEC and should instead have been involved in some kind of anglophone union of NZ/Australia/Canada/USA. I can't tell you how many times I tried to point out to them that that was never going to work.

As it stands now, they are really suffering with some of the uncertainty that has flowed from the referendum, but just cannot bring themselves to admit it. Every time they have a gripe about various issues they are facing I just tell them "You voted for it!". They are also in complete denial as to the effect leaving the EU will have on manufacturing in the UK - I think even Jacob Rees Mogg concedes that point.

The genuinely funny thing about it was that few years ago my dad was asking my advice about buying property in Bulgaria (I put him off it at the time, because I'm not so certain they really have a stable property law yet) - and of course any chance he had of doing that and living out there has been greatly reduced by his vote in the referendum.

As to what we are doing to mitigate it. Fortunately, my son and most of his cousins have, or can get, ongoing EU citizenship via dual nationality. In fact, some of them, who have only ever lived outside the UK, and have other EU passports, will still qualify for UK citizenship too. Unfortunately, after some extensive research, it seems that I do not have the same rights, but my partner does. So, effectively, due to family re-unification rules within the EU, wherever my son or partner go, so too can I.

As to the cousins on the other side of the family, they are probably stuck here too.

I also reflect on the fact that, whatever my parents had voted, the country would still have voted leave - the referendum wasn't lost by two votes. I also don't think there is a chance of a second referendum, because the politicians are just not behind it. But I completely dismiss the scaremongering of Brextremists, that a second referendum would be a betrayal, upset our constitution or cause civil unrest. We seem to have changes of government about every five years without any real ill-effects, and other countries have had referenda in quick succession, where the latter has overturned the result in the former - without any ongoing issues.