Bad experience with Simon Yeo from Ninjakids Locked

[Coffeeplease]

Thanks for sharing this. I am shell shocked and livid at what I have just read. I am glad your son was OK considering the negligence.

[Bishops12]

Goodness I would be furious too. Who the hell kicks a 5 year old out into the open where only knows what could have happened to him. I'm pleased to hear your son is safe.

[Eatonhousemum]

@espinozr I would be interested to know if Simon Yeo has contacted you about this. I'm appalled by what happened to your son. Like many parents I have looked at the classes but am having second thoughts now.

[Bunnypigeon1]

Utterly unacceptable. Not only must it have been so unpleasant for your son, but also very dangerous. Our school had just issued a notification about an attempted abduction of a child last week- I know this has been circulated in a few other schools too. God forbid this man had seen your son standing all alone....
If I were you- I would notify the owners/managers of the Devas club as ultimately they might end up having some liability if something happened to your son. I don’t think his classes are affiliated to any other organisations so you can’t pursue that avenue unfortunately. I would point out that his website specifically talks about anti-bullying, and ask how his bullying of a shy 5 year old computes with that?

[Tigger]

Whilst I have sympathy for the original poster, I'd have to say that this is absolutely not our experience with Simon.  Both of our children have been taught/trained by Simon and he has been nothing but brilliant.  He's clearly a strong character, but his approach with our kids has always been firm but fair - as you would expect from a martial arts trainer.

Personally I would have taken this up directly with him rather than airing your views in what could easily be perceived as a character assassination on a public forum.  Simon has built up a decent little business in the area and is well respected amongst all in the community who know him. Posts like these can quickly destroy someone's livelihood when a quiet word in private would be far more appropriate.

As I said, whilst your experience sounds very unfortunate, posting it on here simply feels vindictive.

[Siyeo]

I think it might be important to consider the facts as it sounds like someone is upset that their child hasnt been allowed to continue to attend my class.

The class started with all the children kneeling down and providing their names. All except for the child mentioned above who flatly refused to provide his name. I spent approximately 10mins of a 45 min class trying to get the child to provide his name, which he flatly refused to do so. I then asked the child to sit out, but clearly visible through a very large glass window. As his behaviour was not conducive to the rest of the class and the time for the other children to practice had been considerably eroded. In addition I also asked another parent who was close to the child to keep an eye on him. I should also add that the whole are is gated and fenced so people cant wander in and out without being noticed. I went to the child another 2 times during the course of the class to ask if he had changed his mind and wanted to give me his name, to which he said he did not. When the father collected the child I informed him of the situation and that within 7 years of teaching many children, I had never had such a situation. The father then returned upset after the second class and I informed him of how I could see the child the whole time through the window as I was addressing the children in that direction and I had also asked another parent also to keep an eye on his child. At the the end I decided that it was best for the child not to attend in future and I gave the father a full refund.

This is a pure statement of fact and people can now draw their own conclusions. Martial arts is a big part discipline, which a lot of parents want. A class cannot run effectively with an uncooperative child. Its unfair to the child and unfair to all the other children that want to learn. I explained all this, but it clearly fell on death ears.

It also subsequently transpires, that the child has speech difficulties and possible behavioural issues, which had I been informed of, I would certainly have made an allowance. This can all be varified by looking at espinozr previous posts regarding his son. I have taught quite a few children with varying issues with great success. I dont claim to be an expert in this field by any means however the parents have always been good enough to alert me of any problems regarding their children. In this case this simply didn't happen prior to class or subsequently.

Yours

Simon
Ninja Kids

[Coffeeplease]

Understand the facts that have been explained but I still find it unacceptable that you requested the child to sit out - even if you say just visible through a window. If this was my child I would have been as furious as the current parents. And I would have not cared that the explanation was that the child didn't want to give his/her name.

Considering our clear differences in views my children will be steering clear.

[chorister]

I wouldn't pass any judgement on this, but it's a really interesting example of how online forums can get used - an anonymous seemingly very partial account starts it off.  In this case the person criticised has responded, but very often they don't or can't or no-one listens.  Worth remembering next time there is an online pile on - due process matters.

[Tigger]

I wouldn't pass any judgement on this, but it's a really interesting example of how online forums can get used - an anonymous seemingly very partial account starts it off.  In this case the person criticised has responded, but very often they don't or can't or no-one listens.  Worth remembering next time there is an online pile on - due process matters.

I agree with Chorister, I had also spotted that espinozr had posted previously on here that his son had speech and potential behavioural issues - a lesson to everyone that our digital footprint has more to say about us than we might want to remember.

I know this classroom and there was no danger of the child being abducted or the like.  What was Simon supposed to, spend 45 minutes with this boy and then have seven parents take to the keyboard complaining that they had paid for a class where the instructor spent the entire session coaxing just one boy? Perhaps a bit of perspective might be in order.

I still believe that taking this situation to a public forum is completely the wrong thing to do - there is a man's family and business at risk by posting things like this.

[NVHusband]

The OP (espinozr) is anonymous and has posted a message with the pure intention of character assassination. Very vindictive.

Whilst the victim is named, the poster is anonymous. Poor form.

@espinozr- pls provide us with your actual name and afford the public the same transparency you have afforded the target of your comments (Simon).

[Flambeau]

I am really shocked and concerned about the businesses approach to this situation and their response on NVN.

In my opinion, it does not appear as though the OP is being vindictive or spiteful in the least.

They have outlined the situation and their experience to this online community to highlight the childcare practices of this business.

I am glad they have.

Any organisation that provides childcare services has duties and responsibilities. As part of its standard application and registration process Simon Yeo as a business should ask all parents and guardians as to whether the child has any SEND, language & communication or behavioural issues that they need to be made aware of.

Obtaining this information is legally required, and the business should make that information available to the class leader, so they ensure proper class management for themselves, the child and the other children in the class. The Disability Discrimination Act, Child Protection and Safeguarding, Health & Safety and Duty of Care cover this for all business providers for services for children and young people.

The apparent unacceptable behaviour that led to a 5-year-old child being physically excluded from the class? The child didn’t want to give his name, surely through Simon Yeo’s class registration process and using educated deductions the class leader should have been able to work out the child’s name??

To put a 5-year-old out of the class, outside in the cold, barefoot for up to 35 mins to stand unsupervised in the entry patio of the building with little or no security is appalling.

There appears to be no consideration of the fact that this was the little boy’s first ever lesson in a new environment, after months of lockdown (remember children have had little or no group social interaction for nearly a year), of the recent attempted abductions of children in the area.
Simon Yeo’s behaviour management seems to be grossly inadequate.

Why is the business asking someone else’s parent to watch this child?

Is there sufficient child to adult ratio in these classes?

Why doesn’t the business ask parents to stay out of sight but close by for the first 15mins when new children join? Just in case.

Why didn’t the class leader put the new boy with a class “buddy” to follow along allowing the little boy time to come out of his shell and participate.

Why didn’t the class leader as the child to sit at the side of the classroom area and then attempt to get the child to re-join after 5 mins or so?

It is disgraceful for the business owner/ respondent to look through the original posters previous posts and then try to use historic information as justification for Simon Yeo’s failure and poor actions. It really shows their attitude and reflects negatively on them and demonstrates exactly what the OP was saying.

This was an opportunity to turn a poor experience of its services into good customer service and follow up, the business failed again.

The OP shouldn’t have to come out with their name or child’s name in any response – why does the business need to know that on NVN?

Have they ejected so many little children from their classes that they don’t know which child/family it is?

Very bizarre and a blatant attempt to steer the conversation away from what appears to be poor standards and failures.

Thank you, OP, for this post, on reading this thread and the business owner’s response, I would not be choosing this environment for child lessons either.

Hopefully the business will review what happened, it’s response, make adjustments and never do this again.

[muddyboots]

To me it’s black and white, not grey.

Any child left in your care is your responsibility.

To me the following would have been acceptable:

1) Call the parent to come back
2) ask the child to wait on the side INSIDE during the class

It not acceptable in ANY SCENARIO to leave a small child outside a building and ask a random stranger to watch over him. It’s your responsibility and nobody else’s to look after the children who you have accepted to offer a class.
With children this small, surely you can’t shrug it off as not your full responsibility when not behaving.

People put trust in companies when leaving their children.

My daughter does ballet for example, I wouldn’t dream of finding her alone outside because she didn’t fancy doing the first position that day.

I do understand it must have been difficult when I child is not responding, but it could be because of fear/worry/new class.
Either way , get the parent back next time !!
Simple

[Coffeeplease]

Muddyboots, I am with you all the way.

[Siyeo]

Rogdy (espinozr). Lets go over this again. Firstly you did come back after the second class in an agitated state and I explained to you very calmly what had happened. This is not being arrogant. I just wanted to explain what had happened and discuss the best route forward. Taking a roll call at the beginning of a class is important on so many levels. Least of all due to the current covid situation. I spent 10 mins of a 45min lesson trying to coax your child's name out of him asking him questions like what do your parents call him. What do they call you at school. Only to met with complete silence and a shaking of his head. If I had more time to spend, which wasn't at the expense of the other children I would have continued. I then thought that if he wasn't going to participate he would be better off waiting outside due to asymptomatic or presymptomatic spread. I also did think how would I expect my children to be treated, had they gone to a class aged 5 and refused to give their name. I would have been ok with where I asked him to sit, right in front of a huge window. But also I would have been extremely upset they had been difficult and uncooperative with the teacher.  It was due to this difference in expectations, is why I paid you a full refund. In addition I did not expect him to refuse to give his name for the duration of the class and I did go out to him several times, at the expense of the class to see if he had changed his mind, to which he told me no. I have never had a situation where a child has refused to give their name over 7 years of teaching and teaching literally hundreds of children. I have previously explained the importance of discipline in martial arts classes and parents often request this. It is no good for the child or the class if they don't want to cooperate.

I will reiterate again that the area was gated, fenced and covered where he was sitting, as some people well know and it's not possible for people to come and go unnoticed. I also had full view of him the whole time through a large window as I orientated the class so I could continuously look through the window. A few parents had also decided to stay despite the Clubs advice, to enjoy the weather.

I will in future, as has been commented on, request any known issues a child may have as I guess I have been lucky over the last 7 years that parents have always explained these things to me at the time of booking the class.

[Goldhawk]

 "I then thought that if he wasn't going to participate he would be better off waiting outside due to asymptomatic spread. "
Really??? If you were worried about asymptomatic spread you wouldn't be running the course inside???

Surely you knew the child's name already?

You were responsible for looking after this child - not other parents outside

Your inability to consider that perhaps you were wrong to send the child outside says everything about your approach