best non aggressive way to confront a shouty neighbour Post Reply

[catsanddogs]

Hi, I would love some advice. We have some relatively new neighbours, I haven't met them but the father is EXTREMELY loud and shouts aggressively non stop at the children who I think can only be toddlers.

Last weekend he was screaming so loudly you could have been forgiven for thinking that there was a fire in the house. He can't have had a breath left in him.

I would love to know what you would advise in terms of speaking to them. I hate to think what the poor children are living with and I think that he has an issue with aggression which is why I am reluctant to go and knock on the door.

Sorry for the dreary post on a Friday morning but I would like to do something about it just not sure what is best.

[Goldhawk]

Speaking to them unlikely to help
If you suspect abuse call the NSPCC or Social Services

[muddyboots]

It’s not clear if you
Wish to confront your neighbour because you want to lecture him and make assumption about him and his parenting or if it’s because the noise it bothering you.

It’s not illegal to shout in your own home.
I totally disagree with the advise of Goldhawk as reporting people would be an unforgivable act if based no evidence whatsoever you don’t even know the age of the children you are assuming.
Any report would mean they would need to investigate which would be very intrusive.

Parenting can be stressful, they’ve just moved in, maybe step back and see how things pan out before being so judgmental.

[fishflower]

I’m afraid I do not agree with muddy boots. I do not think what you are saying is that the noise is bothering you or you want to interfere with your neighbours parenting style. If I understand your message correctly, you are concerned that there is abusive behaviour by the father to his children. If that is right, then I think you should report his behaviour. The children do not have a voice of their own and if you have any concern that they may be being mistreated then in my opinion you should speak out. I do not think you should approach the man directly given he is clearly aggressive. My sister had a similar situation and ended up making a recording of her neighbours shouting and sending it to social services, who did investigate. Her neighbour never spoke to her again but she felt she had done the right thing.

[evainlondon]

First of all, well done for taking this issue seriously and posting to get advice on this difficult matter.

As a safeguarding officer, I would definitely encourage you to record and report to the police. It is everyone's duty to help protect children from harm, as they are too vulnerable to do so themselves. The extreme shouting you describe would likely be classed as emotional abuse.

That's not to say it's easy, so please do feel free to pm me if you would like.
Good luck!

[Pitterpat]

I also agree with evainlondon. Yelling at a child constantly, frequent negative criticism or humiliation are all classified as emotional abuse.

We had this problem a couple of years ago when a family rented the house next door to us. They had two very young children and the the parents’ yelling actually made my hair prickle.

Other neighbours in the street, parents themselves, heard it far more during the summer when the windows were open, but we had to listen to it on a daily basis as we share a wall. I spoke to social services who were incredibly helpful and kind.

Yes, having two children under the age of three is stressful, added to which the challenge of being parents living in a new area, and English not being their first language adding another couple of stresses to the mix, but it’s damaging to scream at such tiny kids in that way.

A couple of people had said to me “that’s just how that nationality treat their children“, but I’m afraid that I simply could not let it lie.

It was agreed that I would keep a diary for a week, noting who was doing the shouting and at what times, and then take a view on it.

However, the following afternoon when I heard the father shout so loudly at one of the kids at the top of the stairs, followed by bump bump bump, thud, following the line of the staircase, brief pause and then a screaming child, it made my skin crawl and I felt physically sick.

At that point I phoned social services back. I don’t know what happened from there on in, but within the space of a few days, the shouting had abated, the kids only cried now and then, and certainly not with the same force that they had done before, and usually on the run-up to bedtime. We all know that that is the witching hour, so I felt reassured that they’d been spoken with.

Some opinions may view it as “normal”, to raise their children like that, and it may have been that that is how they were raised themselves, but that does not make it right.

Ultimately, if I had chosen to turn a blind eye and do nothing and something bad then happened to one of those children, I would simply not have been able to live with myself.

They don’t know that the way they are being made to feel is wrong, and they also don’t know that that behaviour is unacceptable. We have a voice, and we should not be afraid to use it to protect these little people.

[Whatever]

I have a similar situation with a neighbour 2 doors away - and like the others who have replied completely disagree with MuddyBoots.
However on a pessimistic note I can let you know about my experience in trying to help these particular children, which has proved rather fruitless.
I first spoke to NSPCC who created a case number which I quote when I call (although I have now given up calling as nothing happens).
On 2 occasions NSPCC encouraged me to call the police as the shouting and swearing was going on and on - even when the man was in the back garden (seems he doesn’t care who hears). As I said he is a couple of houses away but whenever I walk past the house I hear him ranting, kids crying, it’s horrible.
So on 2 occasions on advice of NSPCC I’ve called the police, who came out, spoke to him at the door for approximately 30 seconds, and left. I went to my neighbour opposite (she also gets upset by it) and we watched from her house. The man came to the door and was all smiley and chatty with the policeman. Total waste of time. A friend who is a social worker said keep reporting as soon as you hear the shouting, keep a log of behaviour etc. Quite frankly I gave up as it came to nothing. The oldest kids are now at school (they range from about 1 year old to 6 years old) and so I hope the school picks up on it and does something, the kids are painfully shy when you see them in the street (which is rare) and seem depressed. It’s really sad

[Screamingmum]

Hi there

I write this from the perspective of a parent who has two fairly out of control little boys. They are born very close together, are completely hyper and are blatantly defiant.

Our discipline strategy thus far has been to give a two minute time out if they do something really bad (clobbering each other for example). We have never used physical discipline and shouting has sadly become a go to if they are about to put themselves in danger. For example, my father was over for lunch on Saturday and my son started to climb onto the window ledge of an open upstairs window behind me. No one else appeared to notice but as I tend to keep eyes everywhere for the two of them, saw my eldest’s knee up on the windowsill. In a reaction of both shock and stress that the had a) managed to get that high up and b) was close to seriously hurting himself I shouted at him to get down, I then explained the potential consequences and told him never to do it again (likely still shouting).

My younger son (4.5 years old) is absolutely oblivious to the danger of traffic despite numerous attempts to explain to him the dangers of just stopping in the middle of a road. He is like a deer in headlights! He has a tendency to scoot far ahead (also explained the dangers of this and used time outs for this) and can scoot into the road when he does stop. Strangers don’t know this about him but I do. Strangers also don’t hear the rather calm ‘slow down love’, ‘wait please’ requests that are issued but do hear the booming holler for him to stop which is my last ditch attempt to stop him (and works!). I get incredibly judgemental looks from other parents but the safety of my child is prioritised over their judgement.

The point of these examples is to say that you really know absolutely nothing about the context of the family or situation. They may have children that are completely out of control and they’re at the end of their rope. Perhaps you could consider dropping by and welcoming them to the neighbourhood, ask them if they have kids, what their ages are (and if age appropriate) whether they’d like to come for a play date with your kids. Maybe you could invite them family over for lunch to observe them more, or offer to help babysit if they felt they needed a break? These are much more sympathetic ways to approach the situation. We are fortunate where we live that our neighbors are really lovely. I often apologise for the shouting and noise as am so conscious that my children constantly shrieking on the trampoline, screaming and fighting over one of their million toys, or me hollering at my five year old because he has scaled something, taken the car keys, unlocked the front door and let himself into our car (while I’m in the shower!) is quite disturbing. Their understanding and kindness really means the world.

Appreciate the situation may be different to what I’m describing but just trying to offer a contrasting perspective from some others.

Good luck! x

[muddyboots]

Exactly screamingmum!

For those who totally misunderstood my point, this is not a question wether one should report abusive behaviour.

It’s a question of having concrete evidence and context.
She’s “recently” had these people move in, what time frame are we talking about?

I was just saying that it’s quite a severe interference to so unless you have solid grounds to do it. At least after a longer period of time.
Or are you saying the second you hear a neighbour shout not even knowing who is present in the house you jump up the phone to report it ?

It’s also very relative, some people are more shouty….
How does she know the children are beiing sworn at ?
Maybe he’s shouting on the phone to someone else for arguments sake.

Too many presumption in my opinion.

[SouthLondonDaddy]

I fully agree with muddyboots and screamingmum.

OP, it is not clear if you are worried about your ears, about the kids' welfare, or both.

You say the father screams but you really need to elaborate, otherwise it's impossible to understand what happens.
How often does he scream? Only at the children or also at the wife? Are there other people in the house? Do you know if they have a nanny / cleaner you could maybe speak to to get their thoughts?
Can you make out what he says at all? Shouting "I'm gonna kill you, you bastard" is fairly different from shouting "Stop / come down / that's dangerous / stop hurting your brother".
Have you ever seen the family in the road / from a window / in their garden (if they have one)?
Have you ever heard or noticed anything that could make you suspect physical violence (say, the noise of people tumbling down the stairs, or objects smashed, etc)?
Where is the family from? There can be a cultural element at play because there are other cultures in which it is perfectly normal to speak in louder tones which here could be misinterpreted as aggressive shouting.

What I am trying to say is: by all means, remain vigilant, but what you have described is too little to understand if it's a violent father or a decent person simply driven to desperation by unruly little children.

To be clear: I fully appreciate that verbal aggression can be one of many forms of violence. Of course I am not saying it is right to verbally abuse anyone, let alone little children. All I am saying is you have no idea if that's what's happening! As screamingmum said, other people hear the parents creaming but don't hear them whisper 10 warnings in a calm voice before it gets to that.

Which brings me to my second point: as the parent of unruly children myself, I know all too well from very direct experience that those without children and those with better-behaved children will be very judgemental and instantly assume that if your kids misbehave it's  all your fault. To these people I say: get lost (I would actually say something else, but it would get me banned).

I once had an episode where, during a heatwave and around 12.30, my daughter refused to leave the playground. I may have raised my voice, but she was screaming as if her life depended on it and as if I was somehow abusing her. One guy came up to me, told me off for being too nervous, even proposed to help me with the kids himself, because "that's no way to treat a child". I explained that it was getting late for lunch, it was so hot it was unsafe to remain under the sun for much longer, and that the fact that my daughter was having a violent tantrum didn't mean she should skip lunch and stay under the sun in the hottest period of the day. I added that, if he felt I was jeopardising the welfare of the child in any way, then it was his civic duty to call the police, otherwise he should keep his mouth shut and mind his own business.

There have been other episodes like this but hopefully you get the idea.
 

[Opensez]

Are you able to reach out as a neighbour first, i,e, ring the doorbell and introduce yourself, ask if there is anything you can do since they are new to the neighbourhood etc. I'm suggesting this as a genuine response to getting new neighbours, not to be sly/spying or nosey, but perhaps doing so will give more of an insight/make a relationship with the mother for example.

[SouthLondonDaddy]

As a safeguarding officer, I would definitely encourage you to record and report to the police. It is everyone's duty to help protect children from harm, as they are too vulnerable to do so themselves. The extreme shouting you describe would likely be classed as emotional abuse.
 

Report what, though? That a man raises his voice in his house? As I mentioned in the other reply, I think there needs to be more information. Shouting obscenities and threats is not the same as shouting "what are you doing, that's dangerous, come down, stop that, you're hurting your brother" etc. As it stands, the OP gave no colour whatsoever about which it could be.
 

[catsanddogs]

Hi everyone and thanks for all of your replies. The shouting is mostly of the 'stop that' or 'put that down now' variety. I have no evidence that anything more is going on but a) it is VERY loud, aggressive and disruptive if I am in the garden b)it just makes me a bit concerned for the mental welfare of the toddlers as they are on the other end of an overload of shouting on a daily basis.

[SouthLondonDaddy]

OP, you may be full of good intentions, but so is the road to hell.

If the noise disturbs you it is your right to bring this to your neighbours' attention.

If you are worried about the kids' welfare, well, to be honest you haven't mentioned anything that makes me think they are in danger. No, being shouted at isn't nice, but neither is having unruly children (and again, unless you have unruly children yourself, let me assure you: 1) you have no idea 2) sometimes it's the parents' fault, but not always - so don't judge).

I am not qualified to have an informed opinion on this, but, even if it is entirely possible that shouting may be counter-productive in these cases, I don't think it passes the threshold of a "danger" material enough to warrant alerting the police or social services.

 

[Mam]

This is very tricky. As muddy boots alludes, it can be very hard being a parent to small children and most parents shout from time to time. Raising our voices can be a normal response when we try to protect our children from doing dangerous things. A frazzled parent will need support not judgement. However, as a society we have a responsibility to protect those who are vulnerable to abuse.
It seems a big jump to inform authorities but it is hard to calibrate what is going on from what you have written. Maybe speak to your other neighbours to see if they have concerns? We all live so close together you will not be the only person who is hearing this. Other people may have met your neighbours or even (in a slightly nosey fashion) overlook the garden/ home and have a better idea of what’s happening.
Alternatively a neighbourly welcome to the area might be appreciated and might also put your mind at rest.
Thank you for not shying away from your responsibilities to protect children.