how long do we put up with the classroom disruption before we say something? Post Reply

[AJ2012]

I cannot agree more with the kinder comments above. You do not say how long the child has been in the school. The child of a friend of mine also recently moved to an independent school during / post lockdown. It was difficult for him to settle. This has not been helped by parents clearly talking behind the backs of the family and the child being the only one excluded in class social events. In a class of 10 this is just awful and has in fact made things much worse. He is an incredibly bright child (parents have been told to “aim high” for secondary). Maybe you could find out if there is some way you could help rather than complain about a situation you know nothing about. How do you know the parents (and school) are already not doing anythings to address the problem? And what do you say the solution is- expel the child (who is presumably also trying, in year 5, to prepare for 11+ ?) As your post very clearly shows, money and privilege do not guarantee good parenting, or empathy.

[Ex-Valley-Doll]

Please, please don’t judge the parents — on either side of the dilemma — for simply expressing their concerns. This should be a place to aim for a solution, to provide perspective, not to hurl insults. Please. Bear with the issue. When we were leaving the site where we had our nightmare birthday — see post above — we spent a few minutes with the instructor the venue had assigned to our group. She was completely capable, absolutely no-nonsense, and clearly in charge. She noted that they work with special needs kids all the time, it’s actually therapeutic. But, in her estimation, only 50% of the acting up we witnessed was autism-related. Half, she reckoned, was just …acting up. The real problem is, with us, who are merely witnesses, we don’t know which half is which. A professional with requisite qualifications and experience will help this child. A teacher struggling to impart understanding and knowledge to twenty other kids cannot be expected to also do this. It’s not fair on the school. It’s not fair on the kids. That’s what I mean by a separate track — a place that would do this child some good.

[AJ2012]

Please, please don’t judge the parents — on either side of the dilemma — for simply expressing their concerns. This should be a place to aim for a solution, to provide perspective, not to hurl insults. Please. Bear with the issue. When we were leaving the site where we had our nightmare birthday — see post above — we spent a few minutes with the instructor the venue had assigned to our group. She was completely capable, absolutely no-nonsense, and clearly in charge. She noted that they work with special needs kids all the time, it’s actually therapeutic. But, in her estimation, only 50% of the acting up we witnessed was autism-related. Half, she reckoned, was just …acting up. The real problem is, with us, who are merely witnesses, we don’t know which half is which. A professional with requisite qualifications and experience will help this child. A teacher struggling to impart understanding and knowledge to twenty other kids cannot be expected to also do this. It’s not fair on the school. It’s not fair on the kids. That’s what I mean by a separate track — a place that would do this child some good.

you are right, Ex-Valley. And in fairness, none of us know the extent of the disruption being referred to in OP. 

 

[Be kind]

As someone who has had extensive experience trying to find the utopian ‘separate track’, I have to share that it does not exist. This is particularly the case with academically bright and able children with behavioural issues where the options are very limited as the establishments offered to cater for these children only offer functional level education. Therefore should these children not have access to education for the greater good? Schools should be an inclusive environment that teaches respect and tolerance for everyone with the hope this will filter into society at large. There are many neurodiverse individuals without whom we wouldn’t even have the platforms to have these conversations on. From my understanding they weren’t necessarily ‘easy’ at school either! In life we need to live and work with all sorts of people, segregation does not make the ‘problem’ disappear, if anything it will make things worse for everyone!
Please don’t be that parent.

[Bevvers]

Ex Valley Doll
A spoiled birthday party is really not comparable to a child taking their life. I work in a mainstream school with children who have ASD. There are lots of things that could have been put in place to avoid what happened at the party, perhaps they weren’t explored or planned.
My heart goes out to any parent dealing with the education system when trying to meet their child’s needs.

[iloveminirolls]

Many thanks for all of your replies. 
@be kind I am so very sorry for your loss and appreciate that my question must seem very superficial. In many ways I wish that I hadn't written it but obviously I had no knowledge of what you had to go through.
To answer those who have asked how extensive the disruption is. I only have my frustrated son's side of the story but it seems that it is made up of shouting out, desk banging, doing the exact opposite of what he is asked, particularly in practical situations like games. He doesn't mention that it happens every day but it is maybe twice a week and when it happens it seems to take a lot of the teacher's time. I don't know if there is a specific reason for his behaviour as many have suggested.
Maybe my best course of action would be to see when the next parents evening takes place and try to address without naming names. I do very much want to be kind which is why I asked the question on here and didn't press send on my keyboard to someone at his school.
Thanks again for your replies.
@be kind, once again I am very sorry for your loss.

 

[Ex-Valley-Doll]

My issue is not a spoiled birthday party. That was the least of it. It’s one day in a year. My son was not the child adversely affected. But the ordeal seriously prompted concerns about safety. That’s my point. These dynamics can escalate. A child fell out of a boat — several times. Each time, the boy who suffers from autism treated it like a joke, and actively disrupted the instructor’s attempts to reach a child who was at risk. Likewise, he led a group jeering session targeting a boy who was changing into a wetsuit in a common area, which prompted him to flee to change in a field, while crying such was his distress. Another time this child was his target as he was trying to dive off a high dock. Again, this was not just distressing and humiliating but could have been dangerous. These are genuine risks to others’ safety. We are not spoiled, and entitled. To express concern about another child’s distress is perfectly understandable. I realise some children who are autistic do not realise when they have crossed a line socially which is precisely the problem. This is an issue for schools. Parents can’t do much, hence the option is to speak to them and make sure they have methods to cope.

[Anon14]

Really? You’ve just read that response and that is what you come up with? Just get a grip and live in the real world , the world that is being described you. What has this got to do with paying for an education or not? Frankly you and this thread are much that is wrong with this site and the self-centred, elitist, monied people who inhabit both it and the area. And the sad thing is that I can guarantee you that your poor kid is going to be exactly like you in 10 years time.

[Annabel (admin)]

Many thanks for all of your replies. 

I appreciate that some subjects are more emotional than others but please can I ask that users stay on topic and refrain from personal attacks.

Many thanks

A

[Ex-Valley-Doll]

Class. Has. Nothing. To. Do. With. It. Nor money. Nor elitism. People are concerned for their own children. They have every right to be. Disruptive behaviour is not driven by privilege or deprivation . Nor is it a lifestyle choice. Kindness is necessary but so are boundaries, specific coping strategies, practical methodology. All of which is the responsibility of the school, whether it’s state or independent.

[Be kind]

@ex valley doll
Wow you are putting a lot of blame on a child here. So this boy with autism led a jeering group of presumably neurotypical children who would be more aware of the unkindness against the other boy and yet the autistic one gets the blame!? Can you not see the error in your logic?
I trust he won’t be getting any more invites to parties, I just hope the other parents will continue to give him a chance otherwise how else do you think he will learn better social skills.

[Dud1ey]

The example given above (child with ASC leading on a group of neurotypical children to mock another child) is extremely surprising and I’d say, pretty atypical. I think you’ll find that in 99.99% of cases, the autistic child is the one being bullied, experiencing mental health issues etc. Most children with ASC that I have met (one of them being my child) are gentle, beautiful souls unlikely to cause much “disruption” at all.

And as noted above, there isn’t a separate educational track. It’s extremely difficult to get funding, referrals, any help at all for children who have ASC but are “high functioning”. CAMHS has ridiculously long waiting lists. You don’t get support at a special school unless the case is pretty extreme. So a lot of children who have additional needs have no option but to go to a mainstream school.

To the OP: sounds like you are a kind and compassionate person and I think you already have a plan. As others have said, bear in mind that the parents of the child may be going through a lot too.

[Ex-Valley-Doll]

I’m not trying to stir the pot or prolong the distress, but I find this is not the case — that it’s always a neurotypical child who is the bully and a special needs child is the victim — any more than any other cliché. I’ll just share one anecdote: my son was about two when he was playing inside a structure on Clapham Common, in the area for kids opposite Lavender Hill. It was a kind of train, big enough for children to “drive” and wander around inside. He was standing in the doorway and facing the doorframe when another child — older and bigger and moving fast — passed him, on his way out. He extended one arm and shoved my son face-first into the door jamb. For no conceivable reason, except that his instinct seemed to be to shove whatever was in his eye line. My son wasn’t blocking his path in any way. It was a pointless gesture. My son was shocked, distressed, and sobbing, but not seriously injured. But it was just such an unprompted burst of sheer aggression, I was stunned. I was even more stunned when the boy’s father sauntered past, smiled — as if that were an appropriate reaction — observed our distress, and kept walking. Literally. It took me a few minutes to recover my equilibrium, and to comfort my son, but then I felt I had to say something to him. Something. I just asked, “Is that your son?” And he must have sensed I was put out, because he offered, a bit touchy, and a bit defensive, I thought, “He’s autistic.” As if it ought to have been obvious. As if I were the one being insensitive. This prompted me to totally lose my temper with him and shout at him full in the face in front of a few dozen people. My anger was simply channeled toward one statement: when you hurt someone, you apologise. And you explain why we don’t hurt people. You apologise. And you don’t do it again. He looked at me with a baleful, genuinely baffled, increasingly touchy mien, and really seemed to be taken aback that I would confront him and not simply take autism as an alibi for — anything. I realise the child has no idea what he’s doing. It’s not malicious. I get it. But all the more reason for the adults around him to set boundaries, develop coping strategies, address the predicament. It won’t help him at all in the long run to be enabled. I get that it’s agonising for the parents. But think about it — as I did, instantly — what if my son had been at the top of a climbing frame when this boy just decided to shove him off for no reason? ….what if he’d been on a bike? Etc. I’m sorry but I think you oversimplify the issue and there are genuine concerns that are not simply due to privilege, etc.

[parentpractice]

The strength and depth of feeling here is exactly why this post is so important and the fact it's  generating a really varied and important debate about neuro diversity/ atypical learners/children who struggle to self regulate, needs to be applauded. Thank you to @iloveminirolls for posting, as you are not alone in your thoughts and feelings. The fact is that your child may no longer be a happy motivated learner in the classroom, as he is impacted by the disruption, and you'll need to address this with the school by letting them know the impact it is having on YOUR child, so together you can problem solve.

However, if you are the parent of a neuro diverse child, who struggles in a classroom, I know first hand how harsh society can be and how judged you must feel. I wrote about this in a blog post recently in the form of my lowest parenting moment on a packed London train and how I was judged by others around me as I was told " What your son needs is a darned good smack"!   The Daily Telegraph picked it up and it has been one of their top read articles  ‘A stranger on a train told me my son needed a darned good smack’ (telegraph.co.uk)

Every child has a story 
All behaviour has a cause
When a child is disruptive in the classroom, the chances are they are not BEING a problem, but HAVING a problem.

I guarantee the teachers, SENCO and parents will be working hard behind the scenes to try and meet this child's needs and therein lies the issue. We live in a society which works hard to be inclusive and most parents, even if they are aware they may have an atypical learner, struggle to accept their child may need more specialised education. And NEURO TYPICAL children, who are able and with high IQ's are woefully provided for in the education system. We really are failing our children, and without proper funding and more educational environments that are mainstream, but also specialised in understanding neuro diversity, this topic is NEVER going to go away.

If anyone is interested in my story of parenting a neuro diverse child and feeling so judged and helpless and being failed by CAMHS, and are looking for hope and optimism, then you may find My Child's Different a helpful read.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/My-Childs-Diff ... 1785833286

Thank you again to @iloveminirolls for prompting this important discussion and I really hope things settle down in the classroom so your son can enjoy his learning and in the process I guess he'll start to understand more about how everyone has differing needs and that all behaviour has a cause. Good luck

 

[2009Kat]

OMG Ex-Valley- Doll.  I remember your posts on that issue in the playground at the time - suggesting an autistic child should use a separate playground!!!

https://nappyvalleynet.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=38982&p=88556&hilit=cals#p88556