SW11 car fines from a local cyclist's camera Post Reply

[Busydad]

30% of vehicles on the road are not insured, they evade being stopped, by insuring the vehicles at fake addresses under fake names. ANPR cameras can’t see this. This it why police cannot trace drivers that often leave the scene of a serious accident. More cyclists have insurance than drivers of vehicles, they have third party insurance either through their home insurance or through a cycle club. When I cycled I insured my £5000 bike fully comp due to the high risk of having it stolen. When my kids leave for school every morning and have to walk along Bolingbroke Grove, I am not worried about then being ran over by a bicycle, it’s the reckless speeding vehicles rat running between the Commons and along Bolingbroke Rd that I worry about. A few weeks ago a skip lorry was driving so fast he skidded onto the pedestrian crossing, luckily the teenagers crossing managed to run back onto the pavement. The driver was blatantly texting on his phone. There was a fatal accident on Cheney Walk at the weekend, a woman and three dogs lost their lives. Tell us all where a bicycle has caused a similar carnage. More people have been killed by Russian assassins using poison in the U.K. in the last 20 years that have been killed by cyclists in the U.K. I wish this cyclist with the camera would start videoing dangerous driving on Bolingbroke Grove and video the reckless riding of deliveroo mopeds on Northcote Rd.

[SW11_Cycle]

"Tell us all where a bicycle has caused a similar carnage. "

Agree.

We have normalised the death and destruction that badly driven cars/drivers inflict on us all.

I'm sure there is some psychological study to be done - the sheer rage that certain sections of society have towards cyclists is baffling. Cycling is great for our health, it doesn't use scarce resources, it's efficient and it isn't noisy or dangerous.

Yet a motorist can kill a woman and her three dogs on a saturday morning just three miles from here and we hear nothing.

[muddyboots]

It’s quite ridiculous to try to turn this discussion into cars vs cyclists simplistic view where
Cars are automatically bad and cyclists are good .

We can’t function as a society without cars as it stands so deal with it.
On a practical level, older people are young families are automatically OUT when it comes to bicycles as a practical safe realistic transport solution.
Or have you seen anyone with their baby and toddler on their backs doing a weekly shop in a bike ?!
Weather is an issue too.

And then when you have excluded the old, young, people who can’t cycle due to health reasons, people who can’t store or afford a bit or keep getting it stolen etc then you need to find people with a risk appetite to actually dare to cycle on London roads.

My point is - stop hating on cars and trying to simultaneously excuse everything cyclists do.
Cars are here to stay.

Think cyclists don’t kill ?!
They do , obviously less so, but still do!!
I also have a friend who was badly injured on a bike by a courier on a bike.

Also, for reference Re death caused by cyclists .. https://road.cc/content/news/ministers- ... 287441?amp

[SW11_Cycle]

"We can’t function as a society without cars as it stands so deal with it."

We can - we really can. Not for everything but for almost everything. And for 99% of what we do in cities.

Most of where we live in Sw London was built before the car. All those old photos of Clapham from the 1890's etc show horses and trams - not cars.

They simply weren't around.

We then adopted the car as a society and made a number of massive changes such as bigger, wider roads, petrol stations, traffic lights and roadside parking. Almost every residential road now has cars parked on both sides which are seldom used for day to day use.

So, as a society, we totally upended our way of life to accommodate the car.

The vocal, alternative, transport lobby are simply saying "hey folks, it's time to do that again."

And that's for safety, for a better way of life, for the environment etc etc.

An electric cargo bike can easily take a full family shop AND the children to Waitrose. It's quicker too.

Older people can use electric bikes if their legs aren't up to it.

Cargo bikes also can be fully waterproofed.

Car sharing schemes, like Zipcar, can then be used for those longer trips where you really do need a car.

I'm not saying it's totally straightforward, there will be a lot of change, but if it means kids can play on streets again, road deaths almost totally disappear, as a society we're healthier and better off then that's probably a good thing.

[muddyboots]

You really are clutching at straws here and it comes across as rather naive.

So, you want to go back to the Victorian times?
We live in a historic city that has had to evolve around the historical architecture and infrastructure.

People also used to heat their homes with coal? Shall we do that too?
Poor sanitation, bad air, raw sewage into the Thames. Hey why not embrace all
Of history instead of a rose-tinted view of how the roads were not built for cars at the time.

Perhaps you will suggest we go back to using the waterways with horse drawn barges ? When the Thames was completely clogged.

Do you order clothes online?
Do you ever get an Uber on a night out ?
Do you enjoy online super market shopping ?
Do you like a fully stocked supermarket that is supplied by trucks?
Our whole society is based on the infrastructure on the road as the way to get goods and people from a to b.

I agree that it’s great people can cycle to get around where possible but it’s rather naive to think we can do without cars and be unrealistic.

And it’s very difficult for parents getting children where they need to be on time and get to work.
Some have a nursery one direction, school the opposite and station a third direction.
Sometimes it’s just not possible or feasible to work up a sweat walking or three different directions and be in places on time in a small window of time.

Cycle and walk where possible, but stop demonising cars.

Hopefully, we will move onto more and more eco friendly solutions for fuel overall and society is really changing in a positive direction.

Just look at the change in attitude towards plastic use, the investment in electric charging points etc.

[SW11_Cycle]

"You really are clutching at straws here and it comes across as rather naive.

So, you want to go back to the Victorian times?
We live in a historic city that has had to evolve around the historical architecture and infrastructure."

I don't know if you've noticed but in our exchange I haven't made any personal comments about you.

I'd be grateful if you would treat me with the same respect.

You may believe that I'm naive, and I may be.

But I have some thoughts about what sort of person you might be and I don't think this important discussion is helped by sharing my thoughts about you.

For your other comments, I'd like to just argue with the main one.

An electric cargo bike, in London, is quicker and safer and cheaper than any car. If you're a parent with children who need to be at different schools then the quickest way is by cargo bike. We're seeing these more and more on our roads as parents realise this.

The elderly and infirm have been using electric mobility scooters for years as they do give them a new lease of life.

And you don't work up a sweat.

I prefer to cycle on a normal road bike as it's how I get my exercise but if you don't want to work up a sweat then electric bikes are quicker and safer and cheaper than any car in a city.

[muddyboots]

Well, again not very practical.

1) where do you expect people
To store these cargo bikes? Do you assume everyone has a garage or generous front garden?
I’m pretty sure you can’t park them in the road as wide and they would be stolen most probably left on the street.

2) do you suggest families get two of these cargo bikes then ?? How does a family outing look ?? Mummy and daddy on one each ?

3) weather is not always ideal for this especially if you what to arrive at work not looking like a drained cat after cycling to 3 places Before you when start your commute.

4) I would only even consider this for LOCAL journeys, but that still leaves the issue of not having a car for all other situations.
Taking children on public transport is not easy and not ideal it it’s late.
If we didn’t use a car we would never be able to visit our in-laws as it’s a long drive but near impossible with public transport and would mean loads of changes.

5) it’s easy to judge based on your own situation, but you can’t sit there and decide abs judge how others should live and behave.
It’s quite judgmental to fine people as you think you have the moral upper hand by being a cyclist

[chorister]

Seems a shame to confuse anyone with facts but according to government statistics:

- Between 2004 and 2020 pedal cycle traffic grew by 96%;
- Pedal cycle fatalities increased by 5% from 134 to 141pa
- Serious injuries rose by 26%.

So - pretty clearly on any sensible measure (incidents per pedal cycle journey or pedal cycle / mile) cycling is getting much, much safer.  And a couple more facts:

- 46% (only) of pedal cycle accidents involving 2 vehicles involved a car; and
- 56% of pedal cycle fatalities occurred on rural roads, even though they accounted for only 29% of pedal cycle traffic.  It's safer to cycle in a city.

[SW11_Cycle]

Happy to answer...

1) where do you expect people to store these cargo bikes?

On the road. We store millions of cars on the road and the cars would make way for the cargo bikes. Good locks etc mean they don't get stolen

2) do you suggest families get two of these cargo bikes then ?

If a family has enough money for one small family car they could afford two cargo bikes so they could easily have as many as they need. Running costs are a fraction, and I mean a fraction, of a car

3) weather is not always ideal for this especially if you what to arrive at work not looking like a drained cat

Its very very easy to have weather proof bikes. The issue is when you want to cycle strenuously in the rain then you get really wet, as you typically are wearing less clothes but electric cargo bikes can be fully weather proofed with covers and rain ponchos.

4) " it’s easy to judge based on your own situation, but you can’t sit there and decide abs judge how others should live and behave."

the cyclist lobby would argue that motorists have dictated how we behave for years by insisting we share roads with them but lets put that aside. We're facing a climate, traffic, pollution crisis. If you anyone remembers the pea-soupers of the fifties then our country actually has a strong history of telling people how to behave.

[muddyboots]

When cyclists pay road tax, have identifiable plates and are insured then you might have more of a say.

The roads were built for motors vehicles initially anyway , it’s not about telling cyclists how to behave. Roads have been adapted massively recently to allow for cyclists, yet you are still complaining.

Finally, to allow cyclists powers to report drivers but not vice versa is not very fair.

Cyclist seem to do what they like, as mentioned already. Jumping lights etc and are doing it because they can .

[Kirstie’s Mom]

I don’t have a car . My viewpoint is from a pedestrian . I am sick and tired of cyclists on pavements , running red lights and on non cycle lanes . It’s not about who killed more it’s about having common courtesy for rules -every day when I walk I see at least a handful of cyclists breaking them, consistently . When you ask them to get off the pavement as walking large dogs is difficult enough they spit and swear at you . This is a city , there will be cars . It is not the velodrome.
Even if I could photograph these transgressions there is no way to identify them . Also travelling in a cab a few days ago , a cyclist ran into it and scratched the paint work badly . The cab stopped but the cyclist said he wasn’t insured . Caused thousands of pounds worth of damage .

[SW11_Cycle]

In response to your statement "It’s not about who killed more it’s about having common courtesy for rules -every day"...I have to say I respectfully disagree.

For me, minimising road deaths is a priority. I would rather live in a safer world that prioritises a reduction of catastrophic injuries and deaths rather than one that doesn't care but I can't pretend to understand everybody.

But there is a factual inaccuracy in your post: car drivers DO break more rules than cyclists. That's a fact. There are multiple studies that highlight this but if you're in any doubt just stand on Bolingbroke Grove and watch the cars, it's a 20mph motorised limit and almost none of them will travel under 20mph. Every single one is a rule breaker and seeing as excess speed kills more than pedal bikes my anger is directed there.

But as you've already stated "it's not about who killed more" so I can understand why you're relaxed about this.

The bigger issue is that people, on the whole, hate change and we now live in a world where we're having change forced upon us. Be that climate change, inflation, politics etc etc and a decline in a car use is one aspect that we just have to face.

I picture you as someone who, if born a hundred years earlier would be standing on Northcote Road shouting "but I want to keep my horse" and that's your right, just as it's mine to hold different views.

[chorister]

SW11_Cycle - I know facts can be confusing, but do stop worrying - as I posted above, cycling in cities is getting much safer; see the statistics (as you seem to like statistics), so you should try to be much more positive.  I'm actually surprised you haven't responded - and I note that you never provide sources for your statistics.

[SW11_Cycle]

Chorister "I'm actually surprised you haven't responded" I wasn't aware there was something you wanted me to respond to.

Let me know what it is and I will.

[chorister]

SW11_Cycle - really, can't you figure it out?  Well, let me try to help (*sighs*).

You seem to have an obsession about how dangerous cycling is, but the official stastics show it is getting much safer.  Doesn't that cheer you up (and yes, I do know that one death is one death too many etc)?

And what on earth are you talking about when you say "The bigger issue is that people, on the whole, hate change ..."?  By general consent the pace of change in the last 25 years has been faster than at any time in the whole of human history, and people lap it up - people hate change?  So why for example is the uptake of EVs rocketing?  How on earth did Facebook replace leaning over the fence and chatting to neighbours?  Have you noticed the growth in veganism?