Another 8% fee increase at Hornsby House school Post Reply

[Great fields]

Hi all, more cents worth:

1) I've had a good experience in my outstanding state school. I loved the community and the parents as well as the teachers. We have kept all our state school friends and have playdates with everyone - private and state. I am in a good position to compare the pros and cons.

2) I chose a selective private school with large fields - no point in crowding the kids (with fancy uniforms) into faciilites that are equal to the state schools' ! If we were going to pay, it would have to look like Hogwarts.

3) Of course kids should help each other and teach each other, but as the other person said - able kids have needs and my daughter learnt nothing in year 3 because the school kept on looking at the bottom and redoing all the learning that we covered already during lockdown. She had a great time teaching others and reading books during class, but with no Gifted and Talented programe or any resources to stretch the kids, how could she achieve?

4) Other state school kids I know now are working super hard with tuition to be stretched at home, after a full day of school (teaching the other kids lol). Fortunately, I am so lucky to have a child who can enjoy the time after school because school covers everything (ok, there is one hour of homework, then clubs and fun). All the mental gymnastics happen from 9am-3pm, not 3-10pm! We don't really befriend the psychopathic parents who tutor their private school kids within an inch of their lives after school.

5) Agree that hard work ethic comes from home, BUT if everyone is studying hard, one gets swept up in the tide - same with sports. Peer pressure works boths ways and it makes life easier.

5) Yes, in the our state school we worked hard with all the fund raising and improvements and the PTA, but it's still not better in the education stakes. (It is better in the local community stakes though). You have more 'middle class' and 'good families' in nappyvalley, but what any parent wants is a good education, and that comes with streaming, selecting and pushing, which state schools don't do. Most private schools are teaching one year ahead, even the non selective ones.

6) If you can afford the private school fees, I would recommend starting out in state school until year 3/4 so that your kids hang out with all types, and then move them to a private with good facilities as they get older when the swearing/bullying/effects of pad parenting come up. I think that will enable your children to relate to all types - AND as @Roundandaround says - relating to everyone is so important. Kids also learn that by watching their parents.

On a micro level, I've totally given up my socialist ways and went private. On a macro level, I should've kept my kids in state to increase the ofsead ratings and even out the 'ability gap'. But who is willing to do that to their kids when they have options?

[springlover]

I'm so glad you've posted Great Fields as my experience is spookily similar and I agree with everything you say.

The fees' increases hurt us badly I can't lie, as we also have an older daughter in a private senior school and their fees are up too.

We moved our son this year from a very popular local state primary to a very good local prep school. Like your daughter, he is also in year 4 so we moved after year 3. The difference is massive. We are still friends with many people from the old school and have a chance to compare to what he does to what their children do and it only reinforces our decision. As you say, they pretty much work a year ahead and, what I think makes a very big difference, they stream the kids so each kid works according to his / her ability, in a group of peers who have similar level so the lessons are better and they achieve much more. State schools teach "to the middle" and my son was very bored last year and, although he loved his friends, he had little interest in learning and working. He is incredibly engaged and proud of his results now.

You also make a very valid point about a different work ethic. Yes, as others pointed out, work ethic comes from home but not only. They spend most of their day at school and school has an enormous impact here. My experience is that state schools have very low expectations of children, children need to pass SATs and be "good enough". Noone is going to sweat to make them the best they can be if they are already good enough. My son is very motivated by tests, he wants to get full marks. Every homework is marked and feedback is given and, again, he strives to do his best for this feedback. He is also surrounded by peers who want the same and, as hard work is expected and rewarded, they all feed off each other. Sloppy homework or class work is not accepted, bad behaviour is not tolerated and the classes are smaller so it's easier to ensure it.

My older daugther went through the same state school and I can really compare how different things are. Everyone in her class who wanted to do 11+ tutored, many very heavily. I know one boy who had four different tutors. Many attended special weekend schools and classes to prep. I tutored my daughter too as I had no choice but I didn't find it ideal. She was very tired by 4-5pm when the school ended. As you say, she spent the best hours of the day doing "easy work" and then had to do the hard work at 4-5pm plus weekend homework and practice papers. It was relentless. Her year 5 was awful and she hated it. I still have many of her old practice tests and can compare what I used to do with her in year 4 and what my son does now - based on this I really don't plan to tutor and don't anticipate much need for it.

I also agree that daily sport is very important. I think, perhaps especially for the boys, it makes them work better and be more focused.

So, to sum up, we are also very upset about the fees' increases, I think all of us in the private sector are badly hit by them... But, sadly, I don't agree, based on extensive personal experience which allows me to really compare things like for like, that state education is as good as private if you have a good private school. I would love it to be true, my wallet would love it to be true, but it's just not true and, with the teaching profession and recruitment in crisis, I fear the gap is only widening.

[Tia3]

It’s good to see some pro private posts (finally)..
However, not sure I fully endorse all the points some are valid, thankfully otherwise you really would be wasting all your money.
smaller class sizes are a pro - especially for a child who is struggling academically or otherwise. For a bright kid it’s less of an issue.
Disruptive kids - yes probably bigger issue in state primary but much Less of an issue in state secondary where kids are streamed.
Sport - my son does sport every morning before school (runs a mile) and after school clubs at lunch and after school. Definitely not concerned on this front.
Some other points around educational enrichment - not sure I buy this - benefits in previous posts of: learning from others , less spoon fed , more independent learning, character building etc win for me.
I think the point of some of the posts (albeit not the original one) is not that there are some advantages of private education but whether at this point in time whether it’s worth the money given the changing macro environment…for 2 kids for ten years you are looking at over £1m pounds once you gross this up.
That said please do keep them private as the more that move state will add to my taxes…
I wonder how many people on this thread in years to come will look back and think “if only”..

[Charlotte12]

We have 2 children in private education, one primary and one secondary. My husband is an accountant and has said the “cost” of private education has increased significantly to our family since the erosion of the lifetime allowance and the increase to £60k contribution allowance each.
If you are able to pay school feels and contribute £60k each (£120k) to your pension then you can consider school fees as a net cost of £50k. If you can’t though you need to gross this up so £50k school fees per annum (2 kids) is an actual cost of nearer £90k per year - if you put the fees £50k money into your pension instead. £90k x 10 years plus cumulative growth and fee increases means your private education for 2 kids is now costing in the region of £1.2-1.5m. Pensions come with IHT benefits for passing to your children but more importantly will provide an income in retirement of more than £50k per annum. The pot will also continue to grow ..
This will all be irrelevant to the super wealthy but those who are sacrificing a lot it’s worth doing some financial planning.
Is it worth it? I don’t know - we are too late to extract ourselves but from a solely financial perspective my children will have to earn a significant amount more than their state school friends to make the differential worth it . It will boil down in the future as to whether giving them a private education or a mortgage free house / flat is a better investment.

[Em75]

Tia3 - are your comments re: primary or secondary education?

I have a son in year 5 state primary but looking at private secondaries. So I have no experience of state secondaries but certainly don't recognise these points for our state primary - " learning from others , less spoon fed , more independent learning, character building etc win for me."

Character building how exactly? Our state primary stopped spelling tests last year as "it was upsetting some children who didn't get good marks". So they stopped all testing for all. There are no tests, no pressure and no difficult tasks that need to be accomplished, no visible awards. My son is now studying hard for 11+ so sometimes he doesn't do school set homework or does it hastily. He is never told off for not doing it or for doing it badly. To be honest I find it to be the opposite of character building. And less spoon fed? And more independent learning? I can't see any independent learning to be honest. Or any encouragement to do more than set in class. Perhaps it's true for secondaries? I'm told by other parents that in the past they used to set quarterly projects which allowed for some creativity and independent research but not anymore. Plus I'm not sure how much they learn from others. These points all sound good but a bit empty to be honest. I
just can't see how they can be back up with any examples.

As I say, I have no experience of secondaries and perhaps we are just bitterly disappointed with our primary

[Tia3]

I was actually referencing state secondary but having been in state primary until recently I honestly don’t recognise any of those experiences you mention. I would be disappointed with that too. The expectations at the primary were so high. We actually sat the 11 plus anyway but just for experience and passed with minimal tutoring. The maths classes were set, the sport was phenomenal & teaching was great too. I felt they knew my child inside out. I also felt grateful that although my child sat the 11 plus there was no pressure to pass and because there wasn’t endless prep and past papers they had a happy fulfilled year 5 and 6 with a broader curriculum…

The one caveat here is that we moved from sw18 to Elmbridge Surrey a few years back… so perhaps we are not comparing like to like.

[Kelly8]

Em 75. I don’t recognise your experiences either in our local state primary.
We relocated from NY to sw11 4 years ago. At the time there were no state options available for our year 4 at the time so we moved her to a local prep and my year 2 we managed to get into our local state school and she is now in year 6. We saw pros and cons of both to be honest. I definitely wouldn’t say the prep was better experience from an all round perspective. The notable differences we saw were sport - mostly those sports that the state couldn’t offer.. like swimming but at our state they had a good daily offering. The other difference was the academic push for 11 plus which to be honest was at the detriment of a balanced curriculum and the overall happiness of our child. Our state year 6 child is in our experience had a much more enriching & happy educational experience the last couple of years than our privately educated child.
We moved our eldest to state secondary. She stormed year 7 having covered much more particularly in maths and English for the 11 plus but she’s now in year 8 and it’s levelled out. I understand from friends in private that the kids that moved state to private have also caught up.
If a big focus is on academics and harbouring for the 11 plus then preps do that well but I think there’s not so much difference in the end results between the privates and the top state streams at secondary if you have a focused child who has a nurturing and encouraging home environment. The levelling up previously mentioned will also help account for any differences when it comes to university admissions.
For us we wanted to keep our money in our pockets. I think our kids futures are looking worrying…

[NT88]

@Great fields - do you mind sharing the names of the public and private schools you are referencing. I am a new mom to the area, trying to navigate a very unfamiliar landscape. Thanks