Deaths in Nappy Valley

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zoeschoenfeld
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Re: Deaths in Nappy Valley

Postby zoeschoenfeld » Thu May 10, 2012 6:55 pm

It is a devastating illness, had PND and now setting up a support group in autumn for mums in Clapham.

It can feel like u are living in hell.

For further info. http://Www.posnataldepression.com currently in Guildford
And coming to Clapham soon.
My thoughts are with this family.
Last edited by zoeschoenfeld on Thu May 10, 2012 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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erinisle22
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Re: Deaths in Nappy Valley

Postby erinisle22 » Thu May 10, 2012 8:49 pm

I heard last week that there is a specialist PND midwife at St Georges Hospital, so do try to get help there if you need, or someone you know needs it.

So so horrible for the family.
Last edited by erinisle22 on Fri May 11, 2012 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tas
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Re: Deaths in Nappy Valley

Postby Tas » Thu May 10, 2012 10:43 pm

Having seen this article in the news today I was absolutely shocked, this is just so so sad for all involved and my heart goes out for both parents.

I still don't think people realise how "full on" and emotional being a mum really is plus if you are new to an area it can be additionally isolating. If you are suffering from PND, whether diagnosed or not, that just makes the situation worse.

I work full time, my LO is nearly 15 months, I don't suffer from PND but still arrived home tonight to have an emotional meltdown on my husband. Thank goodness my husband responded postively plus a stiff drink helped and a good chat with one of my NCT mum's put the world back on balance.

I do think it is very much a 'London' thing..... and I come from overseas, but when a new neighbour arrives in your street i.e. a few houses in distance, we always would pop over in the first week with a welcome gift e.g. bottle of wine, cake, etc, welcome the new arrivals to the neighbourhood and explain who we are and where we lived.

A few weeks later someone would organise 'welcome drinks' and there was an immediate local support network for the new neighbours to tap into. Maybe us mums in Nappy Valley could take 15 minutes out of our busy lives to welcome a new neighbour? I appreciate some might do this already and some might feel it is intrusive but if you are new to an area there is nothing like someone coming forward and saying "welcome". Nor am I'm saying that this may have stopped what has happened!

On a positive note...all I can say from myself is thank goodness for my NCT group and thank you to Nappy Valley as I find it such a great support network even in just sometimes reading that I'm not alone!

I wonder if there is anyway of us sending our support messages to the family??
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GWcouns
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Re: Deaths in Nappy Valley

Postby GWcouns » Mon May 14, 2012 9:51 am

Words can't even begin to express it, can they. For the husband, who found them, and has lost his wife and children. I know she didn't pass away but he has effectively lost her. And the poor wife, my god, what life is there now for her? She has truly lost everything, herself included.

PND is awful, and what I remember of it after I had my second son was that I found it impossible to talk about. I didn't actually know what was wrong with me, and you are in such a fog of tiredness and a crying baby that the last thing you are going to do is say to someone "I think I have post-natal depression" I just kind of became a robot, and was so lost and hurting inside. I eventually did see a doctor, a year later, and had some therapy. But I still feel that was a lost year of my life.

The only hope is that someone close recognises it. With a bit of guesswork I'd say this guy left for work pretty early every morning,(he works in city) wife (with PND) at home with one-year old and 10 week old, maybe alone all day, and throw into the pot they had just gone through one of the most stressful life events we can experience, moving house. My guess would be she was suffering from PND, it was building up and building up, and something happened that day to tip her over into a psychosis. it could have been both babies crying constantly, she had lots to do still with all the unpacking etc, add a few weeks of no sleep and underlying PND and maybe that was enough to cause to her to crack.

I doubt she was aware of what she was doing at the time. When a person has a psychotic episode it is often described afterwards as being, if it is remembered at all, as being like a dream, or as if they were having an out of body experience. (I am a student of psychotherapeutic treatments and we have been studying psychosis recently)

My heart breaks for this couple, and their parents and their extended family and friends. There but for the grace of God go I seems the only thing I can think of.

Please, if you are a new mum, and feeling weird, down, unhappy, frightened, anything that doesn't fit with your normal personality, and it has gone on for more than a few days, talk to your GP or mid-wife. Don't let it drag on, it won't just go away.
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farmeralice
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Re: Deaths in Nappy Valley

Postby farmeralice » Mon May 14, 2012 12:21 pm

PND is something that, some of the time, you can't really identify yourself. I had it after my little boy was born in 2009 but I didn't realise until my husband said that he thought I had it. It made me sit back and look at my behaviour which was so out of character for me. By the time I realised I had it, the symptons started to ease so I didn't have to seek medical help.

However, I then got pregnant a couple of years later and from the word 'go' I suffered horrendous Ante Natal Depression. I didn't even know it existed!! But, once again, my husband had to draw me to the fact that I was utterly miserable and he was right - I couldn't stop crying and I would refuse to socialise with any of our friends. A night out with even our closest friends would send me into a spiral of uncontrolable panic and tears. I NEVER wanted to harm my two year old and was quite the opposite, I used to have panic attacks that I would die early in life and leave him without a Mother.

This time I sought help from my midwife. I cannot praise them enough. I was told to also see my doctor who was incredibly efficient and supportive. They referred me straight away to the the Perinatal Midwife at St George's and also to a specialist in the Mental Health Department (sounds scary but it really isn't).

It meant I could talk and talk and talk. And put things into perspective.

As Mums we put an immense amount of pressure on ourselves to do everything and be the best at everything Mums are supposed to do. Well, in real life, it is hard work. Nowadays we are modern, independent women and suddenly we have this immense responsibility and a little person who demands so much of our time. Our bodies are going through a huge change and hormone levels are through the roof.

We compare ourselves to other Mums and families and we really shouldn't.

I know that now and I can happily look upon life with a very pragmatic view.

And I'm happy to say that I have a beautiful 10 week old little girl and no sign of any PND whatsoever.

But, if any new Mum or recently pregnant women are reading this and find themselves lonely, crying a lot or feeling not quite themselves then please go and see your doctor or midwife. They are incredibly supportive and not judgemental in the slightest. PND and AND does exist but sometimes we can't see the woods for the trees, so to speak. Nobody is going to look at you strangely and not take it seriously. Speak to your husband or partner or closest friends, they may be able to help you identify the key symptons which you can't even see yourself.

My thoughts are with the Boot family at this horrific time.
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zoeschoenfeld
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Re: Deaths in Nappy Valley

Postby zoeschoenfeld » Mon May 14, 2012 1:09 pm

These posts are wonderful. It is a terrible illness and I really do feel that in Nappy Valley we are all so keen to put on a brave face especially in all the coffee shops along the Northcote Road. We are yummy mummies, we should cope with what some of us have longed for all our lives. Our mothers did it so why can't we?

Please do seek help, this lady may have indeed reached psychosis and my heart goes out to her and the family. Even the most cleverest and closest people, fail to see when someone is so ill. If people haven't come across severe depression before, they don't know what it is and how to handle it. Trust me, I know from experience.

We hope to set up a support group for women with PND in Clapham from Autumn 2012, for more info or send me a message through this Nappy Valley.

The Cedar House Support Group
visit: http://www.postnataldepression.com
Twitter: cedarhousesupp
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NYE31
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Re: Deaths in Nappy Valley

Postby NYE31 » Mon May 14, 2012 4:01 pm

This is tragic, they lived a couple of streets away from us, my heart goes out to the Father & their families on both sides.

If this case highlights to people, how desperate PND can be, then hopefully a repeat of this tragedy can be prevented.

I too thought all the reporting about house value etc was invasive & totally inappropriate.
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izzye789
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Re: Deaths in Nappy Valley

Postby izzye789 » Mon May 14, 2012 8:08 pm

its heartbreaking i just hope shes being looked after with care.god bless this poor family.why didnt any of her family see the signs there must have been some.
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carissab
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Re: Deaths in Nappy Valley

Postby carissab » Tue May 15, 2012 10:33 am

Very tragic, may those angels now rest in peace.

I have put some links to some great articles from my home country, Australia. It seems from the comments posted on this thread that Oz is further along in recognising PND exists, openly discussing to break the stigma and providing support networks. You may not know the actors in these stories, but you will hear and recognise the importance of understanding PND.

http://www.news.com.au/features/onehour ... 6356158179

http://www.news.com.au/features/onehour ... 6356233370
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tamara
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Re: Deaths in Nappy Valley

Postby tamara » Tue May 15, 2012 8:28 pm

I read today that the poor mother is too ill to attend court

http://www.wandsworthguardian.co.uk/new ... r_hearing/
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coolmum
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Re: Deaths in Nappy Valley

Postby coolmum » Tue May 15, 2012 8:58 pm

This has been playing on my mind ever since hearing about it. Of course my heart goes out to the family but my thoughts are strongly with the mother here. I know there will be mixed reviews on this and I personally don't know the full story but by the sounds of the situation she had 2 very young children and has suffered with PND. People with PND can keep things very bottled up. She lost it for a moment and now what started with PND has probably developed into something worse after realising what she has done.

Is being locked away for life the right answer or should she receive the medical help she needs and then be released?
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supergirl
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Re: Deaths in Nappy Valley

Postby supergirl » Tue May 15, 2012 9:48 pm

My second child is now 21 months, i remember exactly when i woke up one morning feeling my body was alive again. It was the day she turned 19 months. So it took my body 19 months to recover from this 2nd pregnancy, birth and first few months of coping with 2 children 19 months apart. From my first it took only 9 months. I had in retrospect suffered from PND and never really aknowledged it. My husband and his mother suspected it but neither did say anything to me. I know inside himself my husband was understanding and supportive, but on a day to day basis and tired from work he would say i was selfish and self centred.
Because of my personal experience growing up with a depressed mum, i eventually recognised the signs and got myself sorted (change of diet, exercise, and talking). obviously mine was mild.
But there are so many women who suffer in silence. I was ashamed that i couldnt cope while everybody else seemed to be able to cope and hold a part time or full time job. How can we break the law of silence and this pressure the society puts on mums?
Men can not even begin to comprehend what is expected of us whether we work or not. And as somebody said the impact on our bodies. Yes it is a wonderful experience to become a mum, but this is physically snd emotionnally very hard.

I find the post about AND extremely useful and it is the first time i hear about it. I think the care post birth could do more to try and detect wonen with PND. But i remember myself being very cool, relax, full of beans anytime u was meeting someone. I found it easy to disguise. It was in the loneliness of my home that the reality kicked in...

If something great could come out of this sad story that would be good.
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tamara
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Re: Deaths in Nappy Valley

Postby tamara » Thu May 17, 2012 12:44 pm

The inquest found they were suffocated

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news ... witterfeed

Thoughts with family and friends
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excitera
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Re: Deaths in Nappy Valley

Postby excitera » Thu May 17, 2012 2:08 pm

it is horrible story...
poor woman was suffering from Postnatal depression, personally I don't know how she felt moving to a new house with 2 kids that are 11 months apart in age...
I had a baby 6 months ago and still not feeling completely recovered with my body/mind. I'm also not sure how doctors actually can help with depression or traumatic labour experience... :?
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cosmopolitanmum
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Re: Deaths in Nappy Valley

Postby cosmopolitanmum » Thu May 17, 2012 8:38 pm

I can only echo the thoughts of everyone here. How tragic. I think nappyvelley.net is a fantastic forum for providing people with support and perhaps anyone suffering from PND might find some comfort and understanding in this forum. Sometimes seeking professional help is too big a step and this might be a good interim. We all have times when we have felt like we cant cope, and knowing that we arent alone can be a massive support..Husbands are often so loving but they dont know what to do as they arent going through the same thing. I have found that speaking to other Mums can be such a great release!
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