Should sibling's rights be reduced for renters that move awa Post Reply

[dandelion53]

But those that are saying you should just move an older sibling even if you only move less than say a km away, are just assuming that there would be a place available! Frankly in this congested area that is so unlikely. If I had one child at say Honeywell in Y1 and then when I applied for my next child I was no longer within the couple of hundred metres catchment or horror of all horrors, I had dared to move 500 metres in the direction of Balham, then where would I move my older child to??? Holy Ghost is Catholic only. Ravenstone and Alderbrook would be really unlikely to have a Y1 or 2 place so if the sibling rule was taken away, I would have to take 2 children to different schools, I couldn't just simply move the older child - people are suggesting it would be easy like you can just magic places in other schools!! These are not my local schools but this example applies to nearly all schools in the borough. They are all full in R- Y2 with occasional places coming available in older years...

[MGMidget]

I had heard there was spare capacity at Alderbrook and Highfield as examples. I had the impression there were only a few exceptional ones that were always completely full from reception to year two.

[cheshirecat]

The problem is not people who genuinely move. We moved from a two bed 10 minutes from the school, to a three bed 20 minutes away, that was necessary. The problem is the people who rent just to get their child into the school. I just feel sorry for people who feel they need to rent near a school they want their child in. They must have no faith in their child and are generally scared of life, that they MUST go to a good school and not mix with children and families that do not share their exact values (news flash, even the outstanding schools have the typical London mix of pupils). I know a couple who rented a house nearer their choice of Secondary and recently rented another to get their youngest into an outstanding primary. The mother recently told me that her son is naive and needed to be in a good school. To me this translates as 'I am scared, I have sheltered my child and he is only of average intelligence so he needs to be pushed in order to succeed'. Their kids are annoying spoilt brats, so good luck to them! It just makes me mad that children in the council estate on my street are unable to get into the local school because of anxious middle class mother's like this one, who are so scared of London society that they do stupid things like this to widen the gap and make the problem even worse!

[calgary]

It seems that many of these issues would be resolved if all schools just came out with the ruling that you must live in the cachement area the year your children plan to attend the school - full stop. This would mean that every year you would need to prove residency for all your children regardless of whether or not they attended the school the previous year. If you don't qualify for your old school then you get into the nearest school with openings.

This would make it significantly harder to 'game' the system and probably increases likelihood of everyone walking to school. ( And wrt siblings needing to go to the same school - if they are different ages then there will always be a point where they are at different schools.)

This was how it was done when I was a child in North America and it meant that the friends I had a school were also the friends I had in my neighborhood.

Children are resilient and changing schools is not a bad thing.

[BabyB]

I found this chain of posts really discouraging. There seems to be a lot of debating going on and not much of a pro-active approach to change things. Instead of spending time nitpicking at each other, how about everyone post how to campaign to get a new primary school in the area, or post who to talk to in the council, etc...! I googled and found the following: http://www.newschoolsnetwork.org. I am aware of the new Jewish school, but still there is huge demand for more primary schools/places. Focusing on the "rental" problem, isn't the solution... It's just a method of venting versus promoting change. If I had time (and a problem with the school catchment zone for my own children), I would certainly try to do some constructive organising of a lot of really smart women in this neighbourhood. I hope someone with time and energy reads this and does actually start to organise change versus this cycle of posting about the problem. I might just be able to squeeze an ounce of time out of my own schedule to do it if someone can give me the easy skinny on how to start a new free primary!

[schoolgatesmum]

There is a campaign for a free school in what is known as Northside (Clapham Common). If you google Shafesbury Free School you'll find it - they really want people to help.

[rooting4tooting]

how many primary schools were closed down and sold off in Wandsworth in the 1980/90's?
I know of at least two near me.
Lovely flats now with child bearing couples and few school places.
Great planning WBC!!

[MGMidget]

Calgary, a good idea! BabyB, whilst getting parents motivated to create new ( good ) schools is a good idea it won't solve the problem of people 'gaming' the system and squeezing out local children. If the new school is good siblings will soon take over half the places and the catchment area for non siblings will shrink to 350 metres or so whilst some siblings will be arriving by car.

[mgb]

Calgary, I completely agree with you. It is a good idea. Same rules applied where I grew up (prove residency every year for the local school) and no one seemed to suffer, in fact we looked forward to meeting new friends every year.

[GirlAloud]

I completely agree that something needs to be done in the short term to stop the 'working the system' for school applications that goes on in this area. It is obvious from other posts on this subject that many people are willing to do it and i know of a number of parents that have done it for BV this year. Some peoples justification for doing it seems to be 'well I can't afford to buy a house near the outstanding school' but quite frankly the parents I know who have done it this year are all living in £1m+ homes. I wish these parents would come out and admit that they are doing what they are doing because they can afford to buy their child a place at a state school of their choice. So it's more about what they can afford to do rather than what they can't afford to do.

I also have a number of other issues with what goes on locally. I know of parents who are holding places at BV or HW and also places at private school because they can't decide which school they want. There are not enought state school places for all the children in the borough and unfortunately the council rely on private school places to bridge the gap. These parents are holding two school places up in the local area while there are other parents who did not actually get offered any school place by the council in April, but will be offered a place before September when state places become available. I don't know exactly what can be done about this, however I would think these parents are showing a lack of regard for the process as a whole and to their neighbours by holding multiple school places.

Also - its a little frustrating that people can simply jump up the wait list after the initial round of offers simply by renting a property and jumping the list. What's the point of having a closing date for applications if someone can come in June and take out a short term rent on a property opposite the school to jump to from way down the wait list to the top of it.

CalGary- your idea seems like an interesting one. It would be interesting to hear from BV how many reception children have changed their home address with the school before the end of the first term. Another idea is to consider length of time at home address when allocating places. So for example people who are at their property 1yr+ by the closing date get priority over those with less than 1yr at the home address.

[supergirl]

@ girlAloud: while i agree with most of what you said, a few points of what you say seem unrealistic.
The reason you can in june jump the list if you are renting closer is because there are some genuine people who come back to the country with their children, some move at short notice too. These children need then a school place.
Calgary idea is a good one as well as what Beatrix Pitter school is doing with 2 priority areas. You couldnt introduce length of time as well because that would be discriminating the genuine people who move at short notice.

[MGMidget]

Having a 'length of time' requirement does reward people who put down roots in the community and stay for a long time rather than short-termists moving in for a school place then moving out again! I think its an interesting idea amongst others suggested. And I also know someone renting for BV to jump the queue.

As far as holding private school places and a place at Honeywell/Belleville or any other school is concerned some may be uncertain of their own financial situation so hanging on to the last minute. I think they are entitled to a state school place like everyone else - they pay their taxes like everyone else! If they ultimately go private then it frees up a place for someone on the waiting list.

[GirlAloud]

I think I disagree with you Supergirl. If in June one place becomes available at BV, I would rather see it go to the child who has lived locally for a number of years and who parents have contributed socially and financially to the local area over the child who's family have just moved into the area. While it would be unfortunate for the child who has just moved into the area not to be able to go to the local school if that family had moved back to the country 3 months later the child would just have to take a place at whatever school had one available.

[BalhamMumWorkingFT]

I think that it would be better if kids that moved into the area could only be granted places at schools that are not oversubscribed. Then after x amount of time, be able to join the waiting lists at schools that were oversubscribed. X could be anything from 3months to a year.

I think it is an idea the council has been mulling over, but then again, it is hard to admin and the costs may be prohibitive.

I'd rather that additional schools be opened per a previous poster. But then again, there is space in the state system in Wandsworth, just not at the schools that are preferred.

[tgjmummy]

I think that could be an interesting idea. As it least it may prevent the annual cycle of houses going on the rental market purely for the purposes of getting into the schools which then makes a mockery of the sibling system in future years.