Inappropriate comments at work - advice please Post Reply

[bel35]

I work for a FTSE company with a reasonable female employee base but with the usual challenge that they tend to be at the lower levels in the organisation. Senior management talk about wanting senior female representation but blame confidence, women choosing to drop out to raise their families etc. This of course can be the case but there are other reasons especially in such tough economic times.

Many areas, including mine, are going through a restructuring (ie redundancy) process. While I was on holiday the all-male senior team of my area got together in a formal meeting to determine the future of our junior colleagues. HR was in the room, however the boss wasn't. I was told that the conversation included the following comments about two different individuals:
- 'you have to remember that she has 4 children and is returning from maternity leave' when one colleague went to choose a highly qualified lady over a less experienced male, when she had already been rejected by others.
- 'she's not committed, she's only interested in doing the 9 to 5 and then getting home to see her kids. she talks about them all the time'

Also, one of the team had requested advice from HR on how to mark another lady done whilst keeping within the rules as he didn't want her.

This wasn't just pub chat, but a formal and hugely important meeting.

I can't imagine that these comments would have been made had I present. Nevertheless, the actions and outcome may have been the same. While this was told to me confidentially, I feel like I should do something about it and intend to speak to the boss but am not sure of the right approach to take.

Any thoughts?

[Louisetaft]

It's a really difficult one. They are clearly discriminatory comments and the context suggests these stereotypical views are influencing redundancy decisions. Whistleblowing on this kind of behaviour is however a big step, particularly when you only have this information second hand. Whether or not you decide to do anything may well be influenced by how you expect your boss to react. Do you think speaking out might change the decisions made? Knowing you might make a difference could make it easier to say something.

[bel35]

you're right it is a big step and i haven't been in the team that long to gauge the boss's reaction unfortunately. Also, as you say it's second hand and so I doubt that I can do anything official. However, everyone wants to be seen to be doing the right thing and I wonder whether making the boss aware that this happened, and that in different circumstances he would have a serious issue on his hands, would have a reasonable impact.

I just want to make sure I do what I can with this info as I am sure important decisions are made, both consciously and sub-consciously, elsewhere on this discriminatory basis but I have never been in a position to do something positive to address the issue.

[Jen66]

How would the person who told you in confidence feel about you taking things further?

Is it likely to get him/her in trouble or make their life difficult?

[Beketaten]

As you weren't there, I don't think you can or should do anything. Your source clearly isn't comfortable with what happened, but it would be up to him to take this to your boss, if he chooses to. If you would have attended this meeting if you hadn't been on holiday, it would be reasonable to ask for explanation of the meeting's outcomes though.

FWIW I don't have much of a problem with what was said (assuming it was true about the women involved). Commitment to the job IS important, not just an employee's skills or experience. If difficult choices have to be made about who to keep on, I can see how someone who always leaves at 5pm on the dot could be overtaken by another who is prepared to put in more time.

[Camille]

Sadly have to agree with Beketaten

[Mustgetmyrootsdone]

Hello, there was an article about this in the observer yesterday, it mentions an action group which may be worth looking into re advice on how to handle it http://m.guardian.co.uk/law/2013/mar/09 ... scrimation

[RubyMum]

This is really interesting and I naively had no idea that people said this thing publically!

It is a lesson to me to never talk about my children at work and try and do a few longer hours when needed and make sure my seniors think I am just as committed as 'the next man'!

[jamummy]

Bel35 I do think you are right to be troubled, but as others have said, this is second-hand information so you are not in a position to do anything about it, other than be vigilant and watch your own back. Were there any minutes taken by the way?

I must say though that there is an assumption that if you are a working mother who talks about your children at work, you're not as committed as your male colleagues ( who also drone on about their families, football, whatever - in their case it's seen as bonding/networking). Who really is in a position to judge if someone's committed or not? Let their work speak for itself! Anything else is typical bitchy office politics, and has no place in a formal meeting.

[calgary]

Is anyone else appalled that these statements might have been made in a formal meeting with HR present! I would think that these are exactly the type of statements that could bring judicial ramifications were they ever to come out.

Bel35 - if you think that the wrong people were chosen to be made redundant, and you think you have the ability to influence the outcome, then I believe that you should insist on understanding why they were chosen and not others.

In terms of hours worked, if my team gets their work done, at the high level I expect, then I don't give a crap how much time they take to do it in. I certainly don't give points to the person who can slave afterhours just because they're 'doing time'. It's Parkinson's Law. People will take as much time as they have to get stuff done. I'm more interested in efficiency than time-card-punching results.

[ScotsMuminLondon]

Hi Bel35,
I'm afraid these things do get said in meetings by idiotic managers (not just male in my experience!). However, it is the role of HR who were present to respond appropriately to such comments and put the manager(s) concerned right about what does and does not form a fair basis for selection for redundancy and to ensure that the process and decision making thereafter stays on the right side of the law. So I'm less concerned that the comments were said (other than the fact that it exposes a significant training need which needs to be addressed) but more concerned with how the HR Team responded and then guided the managers through the remainder of the process.
In terms of what you should do with the information, I'd go to the Head of HR.

[BettyBoo]

It is so tough. Unfortunately these conversations happen all the time. I sit on a board with a good mix of men and women and both with families. It does become a factor in performance reviews. If you had two colleagues who performed at the same level but one showed some of the behaviours above then they would score lower. Irrespective of sex. I have a guy in my dept who also has to leave on time, talks non stop about his baby an has become increasingly distracted and therefore has effected his performance of his job. He recognises this in some areas and has openly said this may effect his career progression. But his wife has the more senior, well paid job. Male or Female - once you have children there are compromises and its hard to have it all. Without something suffering.

[BalhamMumWorkingFT]

Ask HR for meeting minutes. Then ask for another meeting as you'd like to be part of the discussion. Make sure you have well thought out input and make it worth everyone's time (again). Keep it more positive rather than gossipy and negative... no one wins in those situations.

If you show interest and the desire to be apart of the company's future and remain positive and valuable, those comments won't enter into it. It seems very negative and usually the comments indicate an environment where people are grasping for straws to stay employed.

Good Luck

[bel35]

Lots of good points and views thank you. I clearly need to find out the outcome for these ladies before doing anything but i have time as my boss is on holiday until next week. There may or may not be something to the challenge of the 2nd lady but I find it hard to understand the first as anything other than wrong.
I probably need to find out a bit more about it all before deciding on anything. Just asking questions about these colleagues might make people think twice and then if it still feels wrong, speak to the boss. I can't see him being sympathetic but it might make him do the right thing, for at least the bright, high potential mother on mat leave, whatever his preference.

Regardless, the article in the guardian is saddening. Whatever is going on behind the scenes, the outcome for many working mums and their employers is less than ideal and I can't help but feel that both would benefit from addressing this. How though, I have no idea!