Local State Schools - Give us a clue Post Reply

[FraggleRocks]

I think ChristChurch isn't a feeder because it is a) faith and, consequently, b) a feeder for St Cecilia's, which is a very good school albeit a bit of a trek (less so than many of the privates people use though) so it wouldn't really have been fair for it to feed 2 schools. I think it was fairly controversial though.

[papinian]

On a slight tangent, re: Bolingbroke (and as a person who sounds like they're in a similar situation to you - looking for a primary school for 2014) - is it really worth looking at the feeder schools with the explicit purpose of hoping for a place at secondary - or will the whole Academy be stuffed full of siblings anyway well before our kids get there?! Again, I've no idea, but thought I'd ask the question in case anyone else has a clue.

lemonzest: Predicting who will get offered places in Bolingbroke in 2021 is a task for which a crystal ball would be useful.

However, there are two relevant figures:
- How many children are finishing in the five feeder schools every year - 374 (120 at Belleville, 90 at Honeywell, 60 at Highview and Falconbrook, 44 at Wix)
- How many places there are in year seven at Bolingbroke - 120 places

If there are more applications than places then applications from those who will have a sibling at the school at the time of admission will get preference. After siblings,
- first, places will be allocated to each feeder school in proportion to the total number of applications received from that school. (Thus, if 20% of applications came from school A, it would be allocated 20% of places remaining after siblings, children in care, etc.)
- secondly, within each feeder primary school’s allocation of places, applications will be ranked by straight line distance from the main entrance of the academy to the child's home. Places will then be offered to children from each feeder school in the numerical proportion determined above.

The nearer to the Bolingbroke site you live the more likely you are to get a place. However, what is important is how much nearer to the Bolingbroke site you live than other applicants coming from the same feeder school.

What you also want is a lot of applications coming from your feeder school from people who are further away than you are.

I have no idea how this is playing out in practice in terms of current admissions, but I'm sure that if you ask Wandsworth Council they will be able to give you more specific figures about numbers and distances for applicants from each feeder school. It is also worth noting that if parents who are planning to send their children private after primary school put in an application for a state place at Bolingbroke (as a back-up option that they are unlikely to take up) that can affect whether your child gets a place.

Given that the number of places at Bolingbroke is currently only 1/3 of the number of pupils leaving feeder schools I would be wary of assuming that your child will get a place simply because he or she is at a feeder primary school.

[supergirl]

Spot on papinian re: bolingbroke.

I think a feeder school has to also consider results before advising on applying, or the academy (bolingbroke) will also consider results or have i misunderstood?

But in any case it is very likely to predict a lot of disappointements for most of us and it is also very likely that the school will do well given a. Where the children are coming from and b. Parents/community involvment.

[FraggleRocks]

Full admissions details here: http://www.arkbolingbrokeacademy.org/Ma ... -FINAL.pdf

Siblings come first (actually, looked after children, children of founders and children of staff in shortage subjects come before siblings, but they will be tiny numbers) so yes they're likely to cause an issue, given what's seen at BV/HW.

So my interpretation of the admissions arrangement is that your best chance of getting a place at Bolingbroke (if you're long term planning) is probably to send your child to Falconbrook or High View (or Wix - but that's much harder to get a place at) but live BTC, bearing in mind that many FB/HV parents will live a further straight line distance away from Bolingbroke, i.e. north/east of those primary schools rather than south (if that makes sense). Of course, you could always move closer to Bolingbroke when your child is in Y5....

Remember that a LOT of kids from BV and HW go on to private schools and Bolingbroke will have to have storming results before that changes significantly in my opinion (which could of course happen but will take at several years of great exam results before many local parents would take that 'risk').

[FraggleRocks]

Results are not a factor in the admissions policy supergirl. Although I can imagine it might go that way in the next 5-7 years - for example introducing a banding system, like the one used at Ashcroft (rather than a selective stream like Graveney). That's pure speculation on my part though.

[The NSC]

Hello there, I was one of the parent founders of the Bolingbroke school. I've enjoyed reading the recent comments on this thread and across the site about the academy. Just to confirm a couple of points on banding and the like. Our original vision was for a secular non-selective local school - hence why faith schools are not included as feeders and why I would hope banding is never introduced. The local faith schools were (and I imagine still are) undersubscribed. So if you want a faith based education you should have no problems. The feeders model was adopted to help drive the social gap in the borough via a mixed intake. I should add that I now have no connection with the school at all, so cannot confirm what ARK will or wont do over the coming years - they in effect hold a 3 line whip on the local governing body, so they can pretty much do as they please. But having founded the campaign, I would be disappointed if they altered the feeder or non-selective nature of the school. I don't think they will however. As for the wider context of school places, there is a 90,000 shortfall of 'basic need' places currently hitting the system in London. So as some have said on this site, the answer locally BTC is to promote a new primary school as a free school to increase supply. But you need to find a site and more likely an operator. Finally, the current admissions policy is what it is, until you boost local supply to meet demand there will always be winners and losers. But I would add that High View is an excellent school and the new(ish) head there Shaf is brilliant. Why not go and have a look? Good luck to you all and the very best with finding places for your kids, Jon De Maria.

[supergirl]

Jon De maria

many many thanks for clarifying everything and for your post. It is good to hear from the parents founder of the academy.

Supergirl.

[FraggleRocks]

Thanks so much for that NSC - very helpful. Just to clarify, banding isn't the same as being selective - as it takes children from every ability group. If places for the Academy become very difficult to get, there will be an obvious bias towards Belleville children (simply because the school is so much bigger than the other feeders and so a greater % of applications will come from there and probably a greater proportion of siblings too if recent times at Belleville admissions are to go by). By using distance to the school gate as the determining factor, the school will - if it is successful - end up with places going to those who live in the few streets around Northcote Road, with a couple of dozen max outlying children who live nearer to Wix/Falconbrook/north side of High View, which could mean that those in the more 'deprived' areas will, again, lose out, despite it being their nearest school. So, including banding at some stage could help the school to stay truer to its roots as serving a wide cross section of the local area, rather than just BTC parents. But that's just my thinking based on my interpretation of the policy and nothing more. It would add additional complexity to the system so I can see why it wouldn't go down well and in the event of this scenario playing out, the Governors may feel there are benefits to leaving things like that.

[The NSC]

FR, the feeder model was designed to flex in any given year. It works on a simple pro rata basis. So the more parents that apply from High View for example will then get a bigger proportion of places offered under Tier 1. It is a 4FE intake, so 120 places in total. Hence Tier 2 triggers if the total applicants exceed 120 - ie, distance to the academy. Banding as you say works on ability levels so is by definition selective. Applicant pupils sit a test and the school determines the % admitted per band. And hence gaming of the system could occur to skew the ability level and so subsequent exam results upwards. Banding/selection goes against everything we wanted for the school - which was a genuine comprehensive intake. In short, places will be there for High View and Falconbrook kids no matter what. Just how many per school per year depends on the parents willingness to apply to the school in the first place. That's entirely their choice. But BV is the biggest feeder, so its not unreasonable that a lot of the kids would come from there. Or to flip that logic, why would it be fair for the most kids to come from the smallest feeder for example. There is no perfect admissions policy but I think the feeders work pretty well. At the end of the day, the school ethos/vision has to be the right fit for the child, so just because its the closest doesn't mean its the right school for every child.

[FraggleRocks]

Sure. BV having more places available makes sense but I can see it becoming at least as competitive as BV. I have no doubt whatever that the school will receive more than 120 applications within a short time period from the feeder schools (if not already). If it is a real success the number of BV/HW parents going private may drop, increasing overall apps from those schools and the smaller school will be at a disadvantage (inc HW). Kids from the Kambala / Winstanley / York Rd estates who attend FB / HV are likely to miss out on places whereas their class mates who live in the (on average more affluent) streets closer to CJ and St Johns Hill etc will come ahead in the queue.

Does anyone know the split of applications by feeder and if the distance criteria was used for 2013 entry? It will be an interesting trend to watch as will any knock on impact on the popularity of FB/HV.

I'm not really criticising the process - nothing is ever going to be perfect and distance from school is clearly relevant. But if social mix is important this issue may need to be addressed at some stage IMO.

Thanks for posting NSC - really interesting. Sorry to derail thread a bit OP but I think it's relevant to primary school choices too!

[motherbear]

best advice...and I have been a teacher for more than twenty years....go and visit the school and get a feel for it. The test results and the Ofsted gradings tell you very little about the school or how good the teaching and practice is nor how well your own child would thrive there.....

[AMSussams]

Hi,
Emfletch - Macaulay is a lovely school but it is really hard to get into as it is a very popularfaith school, we are in the 80's on the wait list. You have to attend church every 2 weeks for 3 years before applying for a church place otherwise you have to live on the doorstep for the open places. Last year all I wanted was Macaulay Nursery but now my child goes to Nursery at Wix I am really happy with it and looking forward to starting reception in September.
Like others we were originally got our 3rd choice, John Burns which has an outstanding by ofsted but I wanted Wix as my child is already there and happy. I am a lucky one and would like to pass my luck and understanding onto everyone else who are in the position I was in!

[metoo]

Applicant pupils sit a test and the school determines the % admitted per band. And hence gaming of the system could occur to skew the ability level and so subsequent exam results upwards.

I didn't realise this - at Dunraven, where they do banding, we were told that the school takes 20% from each band therefore making the school truly comprehensive and deters skewing in either direction (at the initial entry stage; further down the school I presume the hope is all the kids skew upwards!).

Also, while using banding Ashcroft also have a selective stream - not as famous as Graveney's; it concentrates on 'engineering and technical' promise. You can get into Ashcroft via this route regardless of where you live whereas the normal banding process takes distance into account too.

[TootingEd]

First post! (i signed up to read on other threads but this caught my eye)

Interesting all these comments about bollingbroke and then it caught my eye the poster said it was an ARK school. I know nothing about Bollingbroke, but do know an (ex)senior teacher in another Ark school. Since ARK took over, they had a teacher turnover of about 40 out of 70 teaching staff in a year - not good stuff from a childs/parents point of view. (not sure why he said out of 70 staff as thought he had previously said there was about 170 staff but maybe this included non teaching staff) The school was not in Wandsworth but a much less affluent (nearby) area of London.

The view my friend said ARK's attitude was that the teachers were dispensible and it was the management (i.e. ARK) that was critical for a successful school and were happy to micro manage everything to the point it drove the teachers away.

[FraggleRocks]

I don't know a lot about ARK, other than that they are a charity (and amongst other things fund some student bursaries for students at Oxbridge / other top end unis), but I think high staff turnover is very common when there's new management / including a new head at a school is it not? Sure I've seen on here that this was true at Belleville for e.g. when current head took over (others on here will know more). Agree those numbers sound high though. In any case it is not entirely relevant for a new school set up from scratch, where the teachers will be joining knowing that ARK is the sponsor, in contract to where they have come in as Academy sponsor.

I rather enjoyed this article about them http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/may/2 ... newschools (it is old)