How do you deal with another mum who blanks you? Post Reply

[WannaBe]

Cals, I wonder if the real issue is what you said about being lonely as a new mum, rather than cultural issues. I feel the same, and I think it's a commonly recognised problem. But I don't think it's Brits vs. foreigners issue. Like someone said, London is simply very mixed so it's unlikely you will only mix with British people anyway. Yes, perhaps English mothers are a bit more guarded, but I am not sure that is the case.

We have completely moved areas when we had a child (from one end of London to anther), and I am not feeling dissimilar to you. But I always put it down to being uprooted. I am almost British (well, I am, technically), in that I have lived here for 20 years, studied here, have an English husband, have high school and uni friends who live here, etc. But in the new (mummy) life I don't have that many friends. So I have friends for evenings and weekends, but no one for daytime with the kids. I put it down to this area which I feel is full of different 'types'. I wonder if I am stereotyping here. Both my husband and I are in creative industries, while here seems to be much more financial sector. I often wonder if I stayed in the old neighbourhood if the new mothers I met would feel a lot more 'me' and therefore closer to me? I don't know. The fact is that the people here just seem a little bit different and with different concerns / background stories / cultural references, regardless of nationality! I am just saying that it may not be a nationality issue. In my non-mummy group of friends there are all sorts. But I never felt that the Brits were distant. They are part of it too - as many as you can find in London! (Come to think of it, we married all we could find, so they can't be that bad .)

I still think that moving here was the right decision for our child. I hope I am right.

[claire_s]

this post is super funny!! wow

[uqbar]

I lived in Asia for seven years and therefore had a chance to observe English expats' behaviour when not contained within the strictures of society here. I remember walking out of my front door in KL and seeing a neighbouring couple - English, middle-aged, with kids, solid citizens - standing in the street in their underclothes screaming at each other, throwing things, clutching children to them, the whole bit. And it occurred to me that they were actually enjoying themselves.

It didn't matter that they were being observed by half the neighbourhood because half the neighbourhood were not English (and their opinion could therefore be discounted) and those that were English accepted that since they were not at home, a certain licence was allowed. The splurge of, probably, years of petty resentments and tiny annoyances bursting into the open - and so publicly - was cathartic.

I saw this dynamic repeated many times in KL and, particularly, in Hong Kong - where infidelity, divorce, public rows and arguments were common. There is an arrogance at the heart of this type of expat behaviour, the Schrodinger's cat theory of emotional licence: that if it is not observed (by our REAL friends and family, in our REAL community) then it doesn't really happen. "The locals don't really count..." Pretty racist actually.

But I think non-English people tend to believe that the English are unemotional robots when, in fact, the opposite is the case. There are such enormous passions surging around under the apparently placid surface of most English people that it is absolutely necessary to be constantly under control, otherwise the results would be carnage. Hence "English reserve". Hence also the outpouring of emotion over certain national events (Lady Di, the Olympics, the Jubilee, the Royal Baby). If it's publicly sanctioned, then it's OK to cry and shout and fling oneself about.

Side point: notice how many of these national moments of emotion are connected with the Royal Family... if they serve any function at all, the Royals serve as a conduit for releasing, and disposing of, festering passions - the same function really that Greek tragedy performed in ancient Athens: Catharsis.

Another side point: The one area where all English people of any class are allowed to say absolutely anything to anyone is, curiously, on television. Why is this?

But these are all exceptions to the rule which exists in the day-to-day. English reserve exists as a necessary control on emotions we don't understand and which we do not have the tools to express, or can only express in the most cack-handed, painful, embarrassing way. Don't mess with it, it's a good thing.

[s_veil26]

This is just getting offensive now.

[littlebitloopy]

American Mum,

Although maybe I did find your original post slightly offensive (generalising any nationality/race can be perceived as biggoted).. I can relate to your situation. however, I honestly feel culture/age/marital status/gender/any other way of catagorizing a person has NOTHING to do with this. Like you, I talk to almost anyone. I give the old lady on the bus a run for her money. Seriously! But some people just aren't made that way *shrugs*. I ddon't think this is because you're foreign, you're probably jus a bit over enthusiastic like me! ha! Take it as a compliment love, not everyone has kids n still has the energy to keep up with us!

[PeppermintPatty]

Just a thought: the OP might find Kate Fox's Watching the English a useful read. Fox is an anthropologist and explains 'negative politeness' - the theory that, here and in crowded islands such as Japan and Madagascar, politeness is driven by a desire not to intrude.

There's a brief explanation here: http://www.jameskeirstead.ca/blog/posit ... oliteness/

[asdfghjjkl]

Calsmom...you are definitely not crazy, and it isn't just you. My first few years here I almost broke down in tears on a regular basis after a school run. How can people you have met and interacted with so clearly and deliberately turn their heads away to avoid a mere acknowledgement and smile?

I'm from California, but have also lived in Chicago, Boston, Vermont, ...and Ireland. There IS a difference here. After my first 2 years I went home - via Ireland - and almost fell over at the amount of people who said hello, struck up conversations, and gave friendly love for no good reason. And I thought "thank God, I wasn't imagining - it IS different."

The worst part is that for the first few years my children said hello to strangers everywhere they went and THEY got blanked. I always used to cover by saying "oh, they just didn't hear you honey." I didn't want them to change and be like all those children here that I offer smiles to and they just give me suspicious, dirty looks. After 4 years, I am afraid they don't say hello nearly as often, but hope they still respond with smiles when they are given one.

I decided after a few years of depression living in London that I had to stop thinking about it, not let it change me, and eventually it got better. I accept what I don't get, but remain open to the friendly greetings and friendships that present themselves.

To the non-Americans reading - no one is saying that every American is friendly and every Brit is not. But there are major differences in approach (especially in London) and it can be a real challenge negotiating them - especially when you have kids! Fair play to you Cals_mom for seeking support or feedback and weathering the storm.

[DinosMom]

Littlebitloopy, I am not the original poster. I just defended her regarding lack of British friends after 5 years. In what may be the most culturally diverse city in the world I think it's naive to think a person who relocates here should have made more British friends in said time period, when the mums at the playgrounds, parks, cafes, school functions, etc are from all over the world.

[DinosMom]

Oops, disregard last post littlebitloopy. It wasn't directed to me! Maybe I should be littlebitloopy! My name is American Mum on another site!

[musicalmummy]

OP - I haven't read all of these replies but on skimming a few of them, I have to say this stuff drives me mad too. I am a BRIT and sometimes a bit shy but NOT RUDE and NOT going to make this a cultural difference. I have friends from all different parts of the world and in many different situations / differnt age groups / parents and non-parents / richer and poorer / different religious beliefs / backgrounds and etc from mine - in fact, when I look at it, I have LESS BRIT mummy friends than NON-BRIT!

It is just rudeness, frankly. As a fulltime working mum I found it took a while before people remembered my face as I only picked my son up from his nursery once or twice a week and our childminder picked him up the othertimes and took him in of a morning.

So, it's only gradually that I have come to recognise other mummies' faces and their children's names. But if I'm around the school or the park where all the kids go, I will always smile and say hello to anyone with a child just because that's nice and it is also likely they go to the same nursery and live in the area as we do, so why not?

What you describe is rude esp as you've made the effort to just say hi. I did have a situation like you describe and I ended up blanking this woman back - no more smiles. I found out a few things a long time later - she is thought of as v uptight by many other mummies, she has big issues concerning how wealthy she is and that she always acts like she owns the place, and she has a cocaine problem.

So while I agree that it is rude behaviour - I also agree that it might not actually be about you, just that she could be a stuck up cow/have issues that create her being more stuck up!!

Hugs and best

Musicalmummy X

[Battersea_mom]

I can't believe I'm actually commenting on this but...

I'm a Canadian who has been living in the UK for nearly 10 years and am now lucky to have friends from all over the globe as a result. London is one of the most culturally diverse and accepting places in the world!

I can honestly say that the only culturalism/racism/whatever you want to label it has come from ex pats who move here and then seemingly take great pleasure on British-bashing and criticising of any differences to "the way things are at home". Guess what - nobody asked you to move here. If it's so perfect "back at home", then why are you here?? I'm very proud of my mother country (which is renound for it's friendly, accepting people) but also love the UK and everything it has to offer. People are just as friendly here and just as accepting as "home" - provided you treat them the same way!

The truth is that there are stuck up idiots all over the world. If you've happened to encounter one in London then that's a shame - but don't use that as an excuse to criticise an entire nation.

[WannaBe]

Yup@Breanne.

Besides, I want to be a friend with Americans! There are constantly posts about American mums meeting up with children similar age to mine, etc. And I do think 'What a shame it's just for American mums, it sounds like fun'. Should I feel excluded?

[Mumstwo]

Breanna you hit the nail on the head, very eloquently put! Cals mum could learn a few things from you!

[momtomum]

I am an American mom in London. As an American, there are many things about British culture - or especially the culture in London - I find difficult to cope with.

This does not mean that British or London culture is wrong - or that American culture is wrong. It just means that they are not the same.

It is hard especially at first to be an American here. Many of the British moms I've met in our community have known each other for years. It often feels like they aren't looking for new friends, especially friends who might move away in a year or two. In typical American culture, neighbors invite each other over into their homes frequently, but it seems rare here. In the US people are far more social with strangers on public transport or in public places. There are many other differences.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with either culture, just that it can be quite difficult to adjust. I've found it easier to make friends with other American moms (and expats from anywhere!) because they can identify with how this feels.

[asdfghjjkl]

[quote="momtomum"]I am an American mom in London. As an American, there are many things about British culture - or especially the culture in London - I find difficult to cope with.

This does not mean that British or London culture is wrong - or that American culture is wrong. It just means that they are not the same.

You said it well momtomom.Thank you!