Belleville/Honeywell first offer distance?

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Siyeo
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Re: Belleville/Honeywell first offer distance?

Postby Siyeo » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:12 pm

For many people, the only tangible value is money. And of course money has its place, but the value of cultivating a compassionate attitude is much more effective. When we only pay attention to material values, there’s little room for concern for others, or for mutual regard.... Dalai Lama
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Siyeo
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Re: Belleville/Honeywell first offer distance?

Postby Siyeo » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:21 pm

Hey. But what would he know?
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simonh
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Re: Belleville/Honeywell first offer distance?

Postby simonh » Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:22 pm

Cals_mum_silly wrote: if admissions are based on location in the first instance, then as a point of pure logic, i don't know why the location bias is dropped after the child begins to attend.
what i'm suggesting is, if location is the criteria in new admissions (excluding sibling preference), then why is it dropped as a criteria after this adverse one-off distorting sample is taken?
I would guess because it's very disruptive for the children & the schools to be continually moving kids back & forth between schools in the same area just because parents have moved to the next street or so. S
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Siyeo
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Re: Belleville/Honeywell first offer distance?

Postby Siyeo » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:06 pm

Please can you confirm how many siblings started at the above schools in Reception in September 2013?

Belleville: 62

Honeywell: 42



Please can you confirm how many siblings lived; 500m, 600m, 700m, 800m, 900m, 1000m, 1500m, 2000m, 2500m and outside the Battersea Constituency from the above schools.





Belleville

Honeywell

0-500m

45 B

29 H

501-600m

4 B

2 H

601-700m

3 B

1 H

701-800m

0 B

0 H

801-900m

3 B

0 H

901-1000m

2 B

1 H

1001-1500m

2 B

4 H

1501-2000m

1 B

5 H

2001-2500m

1 B

0 H

2501m +

1 B

0 H

Outside Battersea Constituency

2 B

3 H



Please note those living outside of the Battersea Constituency are also included in the distance figures above.



What was the distance from school the furthest child lived when places were offered in April and by the start of term in September?



Maximum distance offered under proximity admission criterion

Belleville

Honeywell

Initial Offer Day (17th April)

274 metres B

232 metres H

By start of term

306 metres B

232 metres H

These are some of the stats of last year. Sorry they didn't paste well
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Cals_mum_silly
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Re: Belleville/Honeywell first offer distance?

Postby Cals_mum_silly » Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:17 pm

this issue cuts two ways. some friends of ours rented BTC in 2007. They sent their kids to Belleville because they qualified. they stayed till 2013. their landlord raised the rent regularly, and eventually they moved just across the common to the lavender hill side. they still attend the school, which is both fair and logical: they walk back and forth every day. this is what i think the criteria should be: stay if you remain within a child’s walking distance.

many families have put down roots and yet been priced out. their kids should not be punished. real estate in this area is subject to a high degree of price discrimination; the same square footage costs twice as much BTC as it does on lavender hill.

but this is to distinguish people of goodwill from the ones who work the system. another couple people we knew rented BTC with the explicitly stated purpose of getting into school. they moved to Earlsfield the same week their child started at Belleville last fall. this was all according to plan. they bought a car for the school run. they wanted more space and more amenities.

i told this story to a local father (without identifying them) who bought on Mallinson, now well outside the zone. he replied: “that’s just immoral.” i agree. it’s dishonest, it’s exploitative, it’s self-serving, and it creates all kinds of problems, one being traffic.

parents who bought locally — exercising prudent financial planning as well as good faith — are compelled to drive across the city for school, which places a burden on families juggling work, logistics, and commutes; while others drive here to drop their kids off - by choice.

this contributes to the biggest problem london’s got besides school places — i.e., traffic -- and they probably pass each other on the road. that’s crazy.

this practice also affects the kids. our Earlsfield friend told us a story: one day her child was informed, “i’m having a birthday party. but you’re not invited.” …i would venture that her classmates have realised how their parents feel about people like hers.

I think people like her parents ought to be compelled to assume the burden of their choices, not enabled to impose it on the rest of us. if you could not conceivably walk to the gates with a child in tow, then, go to your own local school. the council should establish a two-tier catchment zone: a zone of entry, and a zone of exit. they need not be set down along the same geographic coordinates. why is this controversial? it seems simply fair.

today we went to battersea park and passed the lavender hill school on Latchmere road, which was turned into luxury flats. this nearly made me laugh out loud, but in disbelief, not mirth. London needs more houses, but if only this school had remained a school, we would not be facing a places shortage. i can’t fathom why the council allowed that planning application to go through. london needs more schools and houses. crowding out one to make room for the other is shooting yourself in the foot. so is sending people across the city in cars. it puts a huge strain on infrastructure.

i worked in finance. i get the principle of money chasing returns on equity. but i don’t get giving people a glaring incentive to gouge their neighbours. i refer to this neighbourhood as heartbreak hotel. from the schools that no one can get into, to the houses chopped up into flats, to the eight “for sale,” signs on our five-minute walk to the Common, to the demise of Under the Greenwood Tree, closed to make room for estate agents this weekend, something is very wrong here.

we spoke to a lady last week who grew up here and came back, hoping to raise her child; they can’t afford to stay. this is not gentrification. it’s mercenary exploitation. all of us are affected, not just people who live on Belleville Road but can’t — implausibly — send their kids to Belleville School. this is a true story that one mum told me about her own predicament. this pattern is attributable to many factors, but the single most salient is scholastic tourism.

the fact that turnover is so high, is the reason estate agents plague this post code like a bad rash, crowding out unique and beloved places like UTGT, which will probably be a Foxton’s.

the new US embassy at the old power station will probably send prices even higher. US relocation scouts are already here. at some point, no one who needs a good state education will be able to buy here at all. buyers will be rewarded, while a transient renting population will move in and out grimly to get their kids into schools. this will be a two-tier community, not conceivably the intention of those who made the rules or those charged with implementing them.

i’ve heard parents suggest renting flats *one block* closer to schools, while leasing out their own homes. this is lunacy. but it’s a man-made dilemma. i don’t relish apathy so it makes sense to try to figure out how it could be fixed given the will to adapt in an intelligent way.
here’s my proposal: let people who move away but remain in walking distance keep attending. tell everyone else to go away.
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Cals_mum_silly
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Re: Belleville/Honeywell first offer distance?

Postby Cals_mum_silly » Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:25 pm

...and finally let me state --- again, as I have stated previously --- I have never screamed at *anyone's* kid. never. not in 37 years. not once. this kid was gone too fast for me to say a word to him. i addressed myself to his dad. and judging by his reaction his son is not going to learn to deal with other people from watching his father. that is frankly letting him down, and not helping him cope with a condition like autism. we teach kids not to hurt each other. Yes? yes. we don't laugh, shrug, and blow off the parents of much smaller children left hurt and crying. we certainly don't ask them, "what's wrong with you?" when they -- quite predictably -- express displeasure at being treated this way -- and seeing their children injured. let me repeat: all that was required was one question: "i'm sorry. is he ok?" no uproar. no fanfare. no drama. ...make sense? courtesy. works miracles. i had no problem with the kid. he clearly had no idea what had happened. i had a huge problem with his dad. still do, in fact. this will not help his son, long term. FWIW.
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Re: Belleville/Honeywell first offer distance?

Postby Cals_mum_silly » Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:37 pm

let me be perfectly frank: what if this kid hits someone when he's a bit older... and that kid isn't smaller and more vulnerable, like my son was when this encounter took place. say, he (or she) is older and he or she's inclined -- as kids often are -- to hit *back* -- how has this father helped his son by allowing him to hurt someone and then treating it as a joke? he hasn't. it's just creating a bigger problem. i certainly don't feel autistic kids should be excluded from parks or schools. the problem isn't autism. it's violent behavior. it's behavior that hurts other children. this has got to be treated as a problem that has to be solved. not a "who cares?" phenomenon. i'm not into apathy. which puts me at odds with my adopted country. frequently!
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Honeybee
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Re: Belleville/Honeywell first offer distance?

Postby Honeybee » Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:47 pm

The (im)morality of short term renters for school catchment purposes aside (I think everyone agrees that those practises leave much to be desired), as someone who doesn't live btc but close enough to know people discussing these issues, I must say that there is a tendency for mountains to be made of molehills here. There seem to be people on this thread very upset about not getting into BV/HW but as far as I can see they have been offered places at other local schools such as Alderbrook, which, as far as I can see, seems like an excellent school.

It's not that unusual to have to drive your kids to school, or take the bus, or tube. Many people I know do it (not BV/HW parents) but people who, like me, live in an area where the nearest state school is more than 600m away and so we'd be lucky to get into a school within walking distance. I also met a load of people who are planning to send their kids to private schools and are prepared to drive considerable distances. And what do you think people outside London in more rural areas do?

As others have said, the solution is to create more schools, but for this to be well planned and researched, in areas where there will be demand.
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Cals_mum_silly
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Re: Belleville/Honeywell first offer distance?

Postby Cals_mum_silly » Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:57 pm

put it this way: someone hits your son from behind, comes barreling past, pushes him bodily into a piece of playground equipment face first -- brutally -- then steps on his body in order to continue on his progress.

your son is two years old, desperate, hurt, and sobbing. the other child is at least twice his size and long gone. what do you do? i waited for his dad to do something. he did nothing at all. he laughed, he smiled. he manifested no reaction whatsoever except mirth. he saw me and decided to ignore me point-blank.

.....i was furious. i was outraged. i still am.
my nephew is autistic. neither one of his parents would *ever* behave this way, or allow him to behave this way.
...FWIW. what would *you* do?
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https://nappyvalleynet.com/schools-guide-2024/
https://www.bellevillewix.org.uk/admissions/open-days-and-tours
https://spokenwords.net/11%2B-interview-workshop
https://www.ultimateactivity.co.uk/
https://therocheschool.com/
https://www.belleville-school.org.uk/home/
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Re: Belleville/Honeywell first offer distance?

Postby Cals_mum_silly » Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:13 pm

we came to this neighborhood so thrilled and delighted to have a place to put down roots. our lease ends in one year and there is absolutely no way on earth i would be willing to stay.
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bigsister
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Re: Belleville/Honeywell first offer distance?

Postby bigsister » Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:37 pm

I have just read through this thread and it seems to me that the people who are fortunate enough to be able to afford to live very close to either of these schools simply want to keep them for their own children. The Government has given parents the right to choose which school they would like their children to attend. This does not give an automatic right to your nearest school. These two schools are excellent schools and I can understand why parents want their children to attend them, but it does strike me as selfish to want to exclude people who cannot afford to live next door to them. These schools are predominantly white and middle class. I think it would be fairer if the whole school allocation was done by lottery.
Until that happens I can understand why parents who want their children in these schools rent close by.....they only want the same as everyone else...the best schools in the area. Their local school may not be as good as HW or BV.....and I don't see anything wrong with it. It is definitely within the rules and morals don't come into it.
By the way I use neither school I just don't like the way people assume they have an automatic right to a particular school place.
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Siyeo
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Re: Belleville/Honeywell first offer distance?

Postby Siyeo » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:50 am

It seem you either have a moral compass or you don't. You either have some respect and empathy for your fellow man or you try and play the system to you best ability to your own end with no concern for others. If you observe someone being attacked on the street. Do you look the other way and quicken your step and later justify it to yourself and others that you had no legal obligation to help and you were not qualified to do anything? If you witness an accident or a crime do you stand up and put your name forward or do you worry about the time or inconvenience you may have to incur as a consequence?


Thankfull it seems the the unexpected rewards for this behaviour are being reaped.
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Siyeo
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Re: Belleville/Honeywell first offer distance?

Postby Siyeo » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:03 pm

@bigsister As I have mentioned the term is local school, the clue is in the word local. This doesn't mean driving form tooting or Earlsfield
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Re: Belleville/Honeywell first offer distance?

Postby Northsidedad76 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:18 pm

The government did away with catchment areas for a reason.it was to give parents a choice of schools. If a family live in one area then decide to move they still have a right to go to that school. Catchment (I.e. Local areas showed not to work). Schools have implemented distance rules to help manage demand, however the fact remains parents are allowed to send their children where they like as long as they abide by the rules. Renting is not immoral . Its within the rules. If the council /schools thought this was wrong then they would have changed the rules on the countless times it has been reviewed!
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Re: Belleville/Honeywell first offer distance?

Postby Northsidedad76 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:57 pm

...and as for relocation specialists, They have been around for years . Of course parents from France, nz, US, Canada etc. will want to send there children to certain schools. In the case of btc, they move huge amounts of families to bv or hw ensuring houses bought (or mostly rented) are within catchment. Every summer there is always influx as companies are happy for parents to take time off in the quiet summer months in order to relocate for a few years. Companies are more than willing to pay the house rental premium as it's cheaper than private schools and usually only for a few years.
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