SW London mum drives 4x4 at cyclist and crashes into shop Locked

[MatSnow]

In many ways I am precisely the sort of person the US auto industry is targeting in the design and marketing of their 4x4s. However, I don't drive at all nor do I think I could stand the sniggering ridicule from a large number of people who wonder whether it would not be a whole lot cheaper for 4x4 owners if they just wore a T-shirt saying, 'I have a tiny todger. Please don't laugh.'

[juliantenniscoach]

Trolling is always the best way to undermine your argument.

[BFW]

Julian I do understand your frustration about 4x4s and I also do understand that you genuinely need a bigger car for your job.

BUT - it is a 4x4 driver that almost ran over my child on his bike this weekend because she didn't feel the need to slow down in the streets between the commons and she also felt the need to overtake him in narrow street (she could have waited precisely 10 seconds until the intersection and we would have let her go ahead of us). The wing mirror of her car hit him and he fell on the ground. She of course did not feel the need to stop. But I did take her number plate and reported her. I have seen this particular driver speeding thorough narrow street in her Range Rover Sport (with dark windows of course!!!) around the area for many years with no regards for anyone.

I don't have any research to support this but I do truly believe that a bad driver in a mini will do a lot less damage than a bad driver in a 4x4. I just do not get what the use of a 4x4 in central London is = well apart of course for being a complete status symbol.

Useless, silly, fuel guzzling, polluting cars.

Sorry everyone - rant over.

[MatSnow]

BFW's story about the 4x4 which might well have killed her child is, of course, extremely serious.

Much as Julian the Tennis Coach and the Six Foot Redhead might mock the proposal that a certain type of person is drawn to drive a 4x4 and that person becomes even worse when at the wheel, not only is the US auto industry which manufactures and sells them geared to precisely that psychology (see previous one of my previous posts containing evidence from senior US auto industry figures stating precisely that), but we see on our roads every day just now much more dangerously and selfishly a 4x4 owner is likely to drive than the owner of any other kind of vehicle.

This is why other road-users give them a wide berth, and why pedestrians like me regard their drivers as figures of fun in the tradition of those buffoons in the '70s who smoked gigantic cigars, unbuttoned their shirts to the solar plexus to display gold medallions nestling in their chest hair, and talked very loudly about how much money they made from their last deal.

[Pentneyprincess]

In many ways I am precisely the sort of person the US auto industry is targeting in the design and marketing of their 4x4s. However, I don't drive at all nor do I think I could stand the sniggering ridicule from a large number of people who wonder whether it would not be a whole lot cheaper for 4x4 owners if they just wore a T-shirt saying, 'I have a tiny todger. Please don't laugh.'

Well then MatSnow, you have a very biased opinion of car drivers as you don't drive. I am the owner of a small car (Aygo), 4X4 (Jeep) and a bike which I share with my partner. When I drive my 4x4 I am more cautious than when I drive my Aygo, as I know the small car can fit most places etc.

Many parents choose to have 4X4s for numerous reasons. I take it you have children, have you ever struggled and had to bend down to put your child into a car (no you haven't because you cannot drive), have you ever seen the result of a car crashing into a lorry or large van, this is the main reason why parents like 4x4s they stand more of a chance against these incidents.

I sense a little chip on your shoulder and some jealousy.

I originally come from a city known for cycling, I think cyclists are some of the worst road users, and I cycle daily to work. They think they own the road and can just go through red lights etc.

So whilst this woman is a different case, she did seem to be dangerous even before this incident, your generalization of 4x4 drivers has really annoyed me.

Oh and on another note, research can be incredibly flawed, who knows who funded that US 4X4 research. I only have to say MMR and Autism to show that research can be flawed.

[atbattersea]

…and why pedestrians like me regard their drivers as figures of fun…

It's not just pedestrians, everyone using the road, except them, thinks "dimwit". The ones that really make me laugh out loud are the 4x4s with extra low profile tyres - sure, try that across your farm!

I think the thing they don't recognise is that although they feel safer, because they are up higher and can see above other cars, they've actually got more blind spots close to the 4x4 - so are in fact more dangerous to other road users.

As to the people that insist they need these vehicles - what utter nonsense! Most of these vehicles have five seats - pretty much the same as any other car - a few have seven seats, which is not uncommon in estate cars and standard in people carriers (ie some as small as a Peugeot 308SW).

[atbattersea]

Many parents choose to have 4X4s for numerous reasons. I take it you have children, have you ever struggled and had to bend down to put your child into a car (no you haven't because you cannot drive)…

Are you three metres tall? If not, I can't really see that putting a child in the back of a car is a real problem for most people.

have you ever seen the result of a car crashing into a lorry or large van, this is the main reason why parents like 4x4s they stand more of a chance against these incidents.

Have you ever seen the result of a 4x4 crashing into a car/bicycle/pedestrian? Oh, wait, we have the perfect example of that kicking off this thread! You're kind of missing the point if you think driving a 4x4 is safer - you might feel safer, but you make road use much less safe for everyone else.

Oh and on another note, research can be incredibly flawed, who knows who funded that US 4X4 research. I only have to say MMR and Autism to show that research can be flawed.

Right, but the point here is that MatSnow has pointed to research, and you don't have any counter research to back-up your view. In the MMR debate there was always plenty of counter evidence, which people decided to ignore. It's ok to doubt, but at least do it on some logical basis.

[Annabel (admin)]

Hi Everyone
Thanks for using NVN.

I'm going to lock this thread now.

One of the reasons NVN has been so popular amongst people who aren't traditional forum users is that we try to create an environment which is kind and friendly and helpful.

Certain aspects of this thread fail on all three counts.

That's not to stop anyone restarting the conversation elsewhere but I feel we're going round and round in circles and I don't want potential users nervous about posting in case they get "shouted down" as that just results in a few people shouting in a room on their own, so to speak.

Seriously, thanks everyone for posting but I feel its run its course.

A