General election - vote for staying in EU? Post Reply

[papinian]

It's not just Labour looking to put VAT on private school fees.

It was originally proposed by Michael Gove back in February:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -fees.html

And plenty of Conversative-leaning publications support it, e.g. The Spectator:
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/v ... ls-coming/

[juliantenniscoach]

Two interesting Brexit articles:-
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 92391.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bre ... 74596.html

Not exactly Election related but if it's your priority in voting then worth a read.

[oab]

Apparently if you want to keep the conservatives out, Battersea should be voting Labour - according to this "tactical voting" spreadsheet.

https://indy100.com/article/spreadsheet ... ts-7690411

[headshrinker]

Hi Seb

It's quite simple really, if you voted remain and would like some opposition to challenge the hard Brexit Theresa May seems to want, we need more pro-EU MPs in parliament. To do this, look at the election results for your constituency and vote Labour/Lib Dem depending on who is strongest. Even if you don't normally support these parties, neither has any real chance of winning overall so it is simply about getting MPs who can represent your views and challenge the government as we go through this. Nappy Valley was pretty strongly remain overall so a lot of people are in the unusual position of not feeling that the party they usually support is representing them right now (both Tory and Labour supporters). If this matters to you, you just have to vote tactically and hope that there will be enough opposition to make a difference.

Oh and I love how even a Brexit thread ends up being about school fees! Only on NVN eh? Made me giggle.

[juliantenniscoach]

I think you've misjudged May on wanting a hard Brexit. Clearly she wants the "best deal for Britain", some type of free trade zone. But listen to the statements coming out of Brussels. Yesterday's demand was that all EU workers currently in the UK, receive the same lifetime benefits the EU offer, without offering anything in return.

No soveriegn country would accept that. So actually, if the 'hard Brexit' (see WTO terms) is better than what the EU offer, then that's what May will decide. There is a huge battle going on within the powers that be in the EU now, even more than there is here.

I'd like to see Westminster pay some more attention to education, NHS and local authority financing to be honest.

[storm35]

I will be voting Lib Dem and so will a lot of my friends who are both ex Tory and ex Labour. If your vote is going to be a Brexit vote (like mine), I believe Lib Dem is the only chance we have of stopping it. These are extraordinary times and stranger things have happened, but their membership has jumped to 100k members and theyve raised 1.5mln since the GE was announced. They say they are ready for the fight so I for one am not considering it a lost vote. Regarding school fees, not everybody's child goes to private school, and my local state school is set to lose 550k per year funding under the Tories by 2019. That is the equivalent of 14 teachers and they teach so many children on so many levels, it is something they can ill afford. I have communicated with Jane Ellison and she sticks by their manifesto (which the party themselves breaks), and toes party line. It is time for her to go and I have voted for her twice. Art 50 is reversible, the EU have said they would be very happy to forget the referendum should we vote against it and for me Brexit is the most important thing thats happened politically in my lifetime so its going to be Lib Dem.

[Nims]

Misty, are you sure LibDems will stop Brexit? They renaged on tuition fees....

[Denwand]

In perspective whilst it is true that the Liberals have added 67,000 members since their disastrous results in the 2015 elections they are hardly on a "political surge".

The predicted rise to 100,000 members is still only a mere 18% of Labour Party membership...and look where Labour is in the polls...

Tim Farron is making a bit of a mess of his leadership, dodging questions over his position on LGBT issues and forced to make a partial and not very convincing acknowledgement on the sinfulness of gay sex.

Also nearly everyone remembers the broken policies after the false reassurances of the student fees promise.

I feel sorry for him as he doesn't seem to be able to shake off his priggish "Little Timmy" image

[Punctured Bicycle]

Just a few points to add.

1 There is nothing inevitable about Brexit. Further changes to our laws will be required and this is why May wants to stuff Parliament with as many pliable members as possible

2 The Conservative party appears to be under the control of a shadowy cabal called The European Research Group. They are well organised and ruthless in their pursuit of Hard Brexit.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brex ... -sw5gp7680

3 Their stated aim seems to be to 'minimise European interference in British Parliamentary democracy'. The irony of their steamrolling of said democracy appears to be lost.

http://archive.is/DeAS4

4 Labour policy is confused at best but brave members such as Rosena Allin-Khan and Helen Hayes defied the whip and voted against the Article 50 bill. If these are your MP and you are opposed to Hard Brexit please support them.

5 Be aware that Kate Hoey in Vauxhall seems to be politically aligned with UKIP. Who can forget her little boat trip along the Thames with Nigel Farage?

6 Lib Dems are opposed to Hard Brexit and committed to a final referendum on the terms of Brexit.

7 Greens are being very pragmatic. They campaigned against Brexiter Zac Goldsmith and Heathrow expansion last year and have also announced they will not stand against Rupa Huq (another Labour A50 rebel)

This GE should be thought of as Referendum 2.0. It is clear that if you are opposed to the direction of the Conservative party and the authoritarianism of Mrs May you should withhold your votes and your funds.

[AJ2012]

Pulling together some points made above:

1) I think the general agreed strategy is to vote for anti Brexit mp's. So check how your mp voted. If, like mine (Rosena Allin Khan), s/he voted against article 50, then vote for them.

2) otherwise vote for whoever is running on an anti brexit platform.

DON'T lets, whatever we do, split the vote.

As to school fees, as many of us don't send our children to private school (at least not yet), or have our head buried in the sand about how fortunate we are to be in the group earning over 70K (i.e. top 5% income in the country), we might also like to take into account how many teachers each state school is likely to lose under the Tory proposed cuts. My son is in a very small primary which is set to lose 2 but numbers of up to 14 have been quoted for other local schools.

Also, wow, talk about single issue voting.

[Gatsby]

if you want us to stay in the EU you will need to vote the Tories out. If you want to do that you have to vote tactically and in the Tooting area you would vote LABOUR. There are web sites which you can google to tell you who to vote for depending on your location if thats what you want to do.

[graceygirl]

Sorry, at 70k you are in the top 5% of all UK earners and should be taxed accordingly.

I'm not too far off hitting that over the next 3 years of increments and neither is my partner and we both agree we are higher earners and should support the UK's services that we take full advantage of accordingly.

Whilst we are at it Private Schools should also lose charity status if they aren't making a measurable impact on the local area. I went to one, and the whole ' charity' status was a sham.

[Punctured Bicycle]

Pulling together some points made above:

1) I think the general agreed strategy is to vote for anti Brexit mp's. So check how your mp voted. If, like mine (Rosena Allin Khan), s/he voted against article 50, then vote for them.

2) otherwise vote for whoever is running on an anti brexit platform.

DON'T lets, whatever we do, split the vote.

As to school fees, as many of us don't send our children to private school (at least not yet), or have our head buried in the sand about how fortunate we are to be in the group earning over 70K (i.e. top 5% income in the country), we might also like to take into account how many teachers each state school is likely to lose under the Tory proposed cuts. My son is in a very small primary which is set to lose 2 but numbers of up to 14 have been quoted for other local schools.

Also, wow, talk about single issue voting.

This is a very good point on school funding. London schools all stand to lose out under Conservative proposals. Heathrow expansion is also a cornerstone of Conservative policy.

[actuallyadad]

couple of people missing the point...


if you earn 70k you are already paying more tax than somebody earning, say 25k! Remember people earning more already contribute more- (ok maybe not occasional non-dom type crooks, but they are a negligable % of tax payers) - people seem to forget that...

ALSO by sending your kids to private schools you are saving the state the cost of educating them. That's why private schools get tax breaks.

[graceygirl]

couple of people missing the point...


if you earn 70k you are already paying more tax than somebody earning, say 25k! Remember people earning more already contribute more- (ok maybe not occasional non-dom type crooks, but they are a negligable % of tax payers) - people seem to forget that...

ALSO by sending your kids to private schools you are saving the state the cost of educating them. That's why private schools get tax breaks.

I'm not missing the point. I am very aware of the tax brackets being a higher band payer myself. Ultimately the UK 's state education systems are in crisis due to cuts. As is the Health service ... oh and the Prison Service. It is fairly clear to me that a) we need greater cash resources to spend on these sectors & also this needs to be prioritised.