URGENT ACTION REQUIRED : The ridiculous Labour 'Private School VAT' scam ...

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Marie-Claire1
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Re: URGENT ACTION REQUIRED : The ridiculous Labour 'Private School VAT' scam ...

Postby Marie-Claire1 » Mon Jun 10, 2024 4:22 pm

This is absolutely disgraceful. In short, you are prepared to prejudice and harm the education of all children, until your own (already privileged) children enjoy a guaranteed return to such privilege.

The very definition of self-interest, and "screw the rest of you".

Classy.
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mojo43
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Re: URGENT ACTION REQUIRED : The ridiculous Labour 'Private School VAT' scam ...

Postby mojo43 » Mon Jun 10, 2024 5:07 pm

massive eye roll. The truth is that most of you will find the extra cash because you're just too terrified of sending your children to be educated with the masses! Why? The teachers are definitely no better (there's plenty of crossover between them). There is also (in my experience as a parent of three in South London) far more drug use in private schools (they have the allowances to afford it). The results are NO BETTER if you allow for the fact that a) it's selective - they're not trying to educate everyone and b) especially in sixth form, but also before this, if you're performing much below a B, you're asked to repeat the year or more likely leave. If you take any bright kid, their outcome will be the same. My children's friends from state schools went to all the same universities and courses as their friends from state schools . Two of mine got into Oxford, the other is at vet school - and I'd also say that from day one at uni, they out performed the kids from the most elite schools who had been spoon fed all the way. (Note - the school they went to is the average school up the road, a school where some neighbours choose to spend £20 grand a year or whatever it is to avoid.) My kids also have local friends, they are comfortable in any situation, they're socially aware. Take some deep breaths. If you can find the extra cash, I'm sure you will. If you can't - guess what? Your child might even thank you for it one day.
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harrythecat
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Re: URGENT ACTION REQUIRED : The ridiculous Labour 'Private School VAT' scam ...

Postby harrythecat » Mon Jun 10, 2024 5:10 pm

As an ex Examinations Assessor, seeing London schools of all dimesions, I can only wish that all schools shared the public/private school privileges. Why was VAT ever exempt?

on this letter:-
If you move your kids into the State Sector and why not consider generously contributing some of the saved money into desperately needed school funds that will pay to mend the leaking roofs, for extra teachers , more SEND teachers, and other improvenents. Most state school parents do this anyway, if they can. Go positively and your children will benefit from the diversity of people they will meet, and no doubt become better citizens than those who suggest and support this letter.

No intentions of moving your children? Someone working for Wandsworth will just send links to their application website, and you selfishly will be wasting their time even further if you bother to fill out the forms. You will be depriving local children of school places and causing those families who cannot choose great anxiety. Shame on you !
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Starr
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Re: URGENT ACTION REQUIRED : The ridiculous Labour 'Private School VAT' scam ...

Postby Starr » Mon Jun 10, 2024 6:13 pm

Retired teacher wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 2:43 pm On a wider point, local primary schools may be seeing falling rolls that is not the case for secondary schools. In London there are often several schools within a short distance though not necessarily of the calibre you might choose for your child. Away from London, especially in semi rural areas there is a shortage of places in all age groups. The fantastic extra curricular facilities seen in central London are not the norm and private schools could cut back on that sort of capital investment. One of the causes for above increased fees for all private schools is the recent huge jump to contribute just under 30% of a teacher’s salary to the state pension fund. I have never taught in an independent school or sent my children to one. That does not mean I do not have sympathy for those who have chosen to do so and seen there plans in jeopardy as a result of this threat.

Agree
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Choicematters
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Re: URGENT ACTION REQUIRED : The ridiculous Labour 'Private School VAT' scam ...

Postby Choicematters » Mon Jun 10, 2024 7:30 pm

My family too will be greatly affected by the vat. We are not wealthy and rely on school fee assistance and bursaries, but our school is a teeny school with many families like ours there and may be forced to close. We’ve moved schools twice because ourchike has needed smaller class sizes and a smaller school because of her own special challenges. Our local, while is considered good, would have not been appropriate for her at all. We make enormous sacrifices, including no holidays or paid days out, very strict food budgets, and no birthdays and can’t afford presents at Christmas so we rely on our church. I was not well educated and for me, and I do believe if I had and had parents who cared about such matters, I may have done more with my brain. We give her that gift because it’s a personal choice. Not because of anyone else or because we look down on any other parents.

Interesting change petition from other families like ours:


Change . Org /p/stop-labour-from-adding-20-vat-to-private-school-fees-and-forcing-kids-to-change-schools
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DuchessofWimbledon
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Re: URGENT ACTION REQUIRED : The ridiculous Labour 'Private School VAT' scam ...

Postby DuchessofWimbledon » Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:13 pm

I'm shocked, but sadly not surprised, by this appalling "call to arms".

How out of touch with the real world and utterly entitled does one have to be to think this appalling behaviour is in any way acceptable? Who exactly do you think will be impacted by this childish behaviour?
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Lepresidente
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Re: URGENT ACTION REQUIRED : The ridiculous Labour 'Private School VAT' scam ...

Postby Lepresidente » Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:31 pm

This chat thread really blew up !! Haha funny to see the differing comments. Some ridiculous , some stupid and some logical . Ahh the differing opinions of society .

Kids at Honeywell and happy , so no skin in the game here but at some point private beckons.

But just as an FYI - fact checked with the unbiased BBC on the Sir Kier Starmer .. did he or didn’t he attend a private school .. he did ! .. QUOTE from the BBC.” He went to Reigate Grammar School, which became a private school two years after he joined. His fees were paid by the local council until he was 16.“ UNQUOTE.

My view is the 20% Vat is a terrible policy tbh but won’t impact the existing students at private school because who realistically is going to withdraw their kid once enrolled!! . And from what I hear the internal school surveys conducted show majority of parents have said they can afford the extra vat but it’s a pain or slightly impacts their quality of life.

Where this policy will hurt is new pupils enrolling , as parents may decide not to go down the private route and head to the state system ( thus creating more demand / higher house prices around good state schools / and more students in the state system)

Looking forward to more comments !!! Best read on nappy valley in ages …..it was getting rather boring reading about the next opticians opening up or the best yoga workout !

Laterz
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Joe1999
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Re: URGENT ACTION REQUIRED : The ridiculous Labour 'Private School VAT' scam ...

Postby Joe1999 » Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:22 pm

@lepresidente ..put the wine bottle down.. step away from the wine bottle
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Acorn1023
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Re: URGENT ACTION REQUIRED : The ridiculous Labour 'Private School VAT' scam ...

Postby Acorn1023 » Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:27 pm

For those that find the concept of zero VAT on school fees outrageous, your mind would be blown by the Danish system whereby private schools fees are subsidised by the government because you don’t burden the state.. the schools charge around £15k and the state pays about half of it.

Higher schools fees will just increase the rich/poor divide. We need to find another way.
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Bright tomorrow
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Re: URGENT ACTION REQUIRED : The ridiculous Labour 'Private School VAT' scam ...

Postby Bright tomorrow » Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:40 pm

Great point. Ireland does exactly the same! Official figures show that Ireland has spent €588m on funding private education between 2018 – 2023. Our taxes already go towards state education, whether we use it or not. Private school children also have to pay for all GCSE and A level examinations - a substantial figure that the council has to fork out for all the children in state sector
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Bright tomorrow
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Re: URGENT ACTION REQUIRED : The ridiculous Labour 'Private School VAT' scam ...

Postby Bright tomorrow » Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:44 pm

Following further research: "the proportion of public expenditure used to subsidize private education amounts to 4 percent in the United States, 7 percent in Switzerland, 10 percent in Australia, and nearly 12 percent in France."

Are these countries completely delusional? Together with Denmark, Ireland and others who do the same?
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VitMac
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Re: URGENT ACTION REQUIRED : The ridiculous Labour 'Private School VAT' scam ...

Postby VitMac » Mon Jun 10, 2024 11:48 pm

As a non-British resident on a skilled worker visa, I usually sympathise with Labour, but I cannot support their proposal to include a 20% VAT on private education. The main reason I moved to the UK was to give my children the best possible education.

My children attend an independent school, and we are not affluent. We spend more on their education than on rent and other expenses combined. To afford this, I work 12 hours a day. 

Double Payment: We already pay significant tuition fees for private schools. Adding a 20% VAT means we effectively pay even more, imposing an extra financial burden on families like mine who strive to provide the best for their children. 

Educational Choice: Unlike state schools, which are assigned based on location, private schools allow us to choose the best environment and curriculum for our children. This choice should not be penalised with additional financial strain. 

Financial Implications: By sending our children to private schools, we reduce the burden on the public school system. Introducing a 20% VAT fails to recognise this contribution and places undue strain on families making sacrifices for their children's education. 

Alternative Funding: State schools can be better funded without taxing private school families. Finland has successfully enhanced its public education system through efficient use of existing tax revenues and targeted investments, funded by general taxation that doesn't disproportionately impact private school families.

International Perspective: Many countries offer tax benefits for private schooling. In the US, there are deductions for tuition and education savings plans. In some European countries, private school tuition is tax-deductible. 

That said, I don't think overloading the council mailboxes will do any good. They are not really the ones that have control over this decision.
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NVHusband
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Re: URGENT ACTION REQUIRED : The ridiculous Labour 'Private School VAT' scam ...

Postby NVHusband » Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:15 am

I was educated privately but my kids go to an excellent state primary school BTC. We were fortunate not to need private provision.

If the private school is a charity and all their profits are reinvested in the same school, I don’t see why they should be seen as a “business”. They do not have a profit motive. So why treat these types of schools as a business and apply VAT?

However, if the private school is run like a business and has a profit motive, then why shouldn’t you apply VAT? Most of the private schools BTC are run by private equity who are very good at avoiding tax.

Private Equity try to dominate an area so reducing choice to parents (similar to the model on Vets). Private Equity use significant debt to acquire the school then collateralise their buildings. Parents are paying for the servicing of the debt (interest) via their fees.

Why should a private school run as a business (that is backed by Private Equity) avoid paying VAT?
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supergirl
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Re: URGENT ACTION REQUIRED : The ridiculous Labour 'Private School VAT' scam ...

Postby supergirl » Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:24 am

*@mojo43*
“ There is also (in my experience as a parent of three in South London) far more drug use in private schools (they have the allowances to afford it).”

This has got to be the most ludicrous funny qnd delusional comment i have read in a long time.

If that is what you think honestly look again. Drugs are everywhere especially in an affluent area like Wandsworth; state, private co-ed and single sex schools: gummies - because you can put them in the pocket, coke - because it doesnt make you put on weight (unlike drinks), vodka (again leaner).

Everywhere. If you dont believe me talk to the Met
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justanothervotingscam
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Re: URGENT ACTION REQUIRED : The ridiculous Labour 'Private School VAT' scam ...

Postby justanothervotingscam » Tue Jun 11, 2024 10:50 am

in many developed countries, private education is partly funded by the State, they provide a service the state won't provide but that is deemed necessary for multiple reasons, so private education is supported along public education.

Labour is just having a laugh this is nothing else than another message on a bus, except it is not the Conservative NHS Brexit Bus but the Labour Education Bus !!!!

agree the education system needs a deep review and changes, but this is nowhere to start !

From the National Center for Education Statistics

Many developed countries finance both public schools and private and religious schools with public funds, and they have done so for many years. The proportion of public expenditure used to subsidize private education amounts to 4 percent in the United States, 7 percent in Switzerland, 10 percent in Australia, and nearly 12 percent in France. In Belgium and the Netherlands, private education is entirely publicly funded; thus, the proportion of funding targeted to private-school students approximates the proportion of private-school students in the student population. The issue of public funding in many of these countries does not provoke the widespread controversy that it does in the United States. In return for the funding, the private and religious schools in some countries agree to honor government standards in matters of curriculum, class size, and the like; and their students must still pass the same national examinations as their public-school peers.

The education finance and governance systems in place in Germany, France, and the Netherlands provide an interesting contrast to the system currently existing in the United States. The following paragraphs provide an overview of these systems.

Historically, Germany has had a variety of school types: public schools with a Catholic character, public schools with a Protestant character, public schools with some other distinctive world view, public schools without a religious orientation, and private schools. As in the United States, each German state is responsible for operating its own schools; therefore, the extent to which certain types of schools exist and the level of religious instruction varies among states as well as among localities within the states.

Private schools in Germany are permitted to select both their pupils and teachers and are not rigidly tied to state regulations in regard to the choice of teaching material or the number of weekly lessons. In return for public funding, however, they must hold state examinations and issue reports and certificates, just as would a state-run school. As long as their students perform adequately on the state exams, the private schools are generally left alone.

The French public and private schools differ markedly from the German. Religious instruction does not exist in French public schools, although they are not necessarily "value-neutral" either, as the French state is interested in promoting its own values and beliefs among its citizens. Like Germany, however, France provides government funding to offset the cost of private schooling. Nonpublic schools have several alternatives with regard to governance and funding: (1) to continue completely independent of government intervention, subject to employing qualified teachers; (2) to be absorbed into the national public education system; (3) to accept government requirements as to curriculum and testing in exchange for staff salaries (contrat simple); and (4) to accept, in addition, some government control over pedagogy and the selection of teachers, in exchange for operating expenses as well as salaries (contrat d'association). Among Catholic schools, most elementary schools, with their limited funding needs, choose the contrat simple; while many secondary schools, having higher operating costs, choose the contrat d'association. Schools receiving funds from the contrat d'association must demonstrate that they have a distinctive character or philosophy not catered to in the public system. Private schools without a religious orientation generally choose to remain independent of government intervention, though they do receive a certain amount of public funding under a different law.

The Netherlands finances public and private schools on a completely equal basis, with the Dutch government paying directly for teachers, buildings, and other school costs in both sectors. Given the central government's direct financing of private schools' expenditure on the same basis as schools governed by municipalities, they are not as independent as private schools in most other countries; in fact, all schools must follow the same government rules with respect to administration and curriculum. The most significant difference between private and public schools is that only the former may turn away prospective pupils under certain prescribed conditions. Another difference is that private schools may charge fees for extracurricular activities. In 1990, 31 percent of primary pupils were in public schools and the remaining 69 percent were in private schools, either Protestant, Catholic, or neutral.

Dutch education law requires a "responsible authority" for each school. This may be the national government (for some secondary and higher education institutions) or the local government (for elementary education), in which cases the school is considered public. If the responsible authority is an association, foundation, institution, church council, or religious community, the school is considered private. In order to start up, obtain funding, and remain in operation, a private school must show that it will be attended by a sufficient number of students. The specific number varies according to the size of the community. If no other school is available that provides an education of the same denominational or pedagogical character, the specific numbers are lowered.

Public support of private elementary and secondary schools in the United States is meager. In a few states, students enjoy publicly provided transportation to private school or their parents receive tax credits equal to the amount of their tuition bills. Private schools can also receive federal education grants for poor children, such as those for compensatory instruction or reduced-fee lunches. Private universities in the United States, however, generally receive large amounts of public funds. They take the form of federal or state student loans, federal research grants, and state grants for academic programs that serve state residents. All private schools in the United States at all levels also obtain property-tax relief.

Footnote
*/ The primary sources for this sidebar include: S.M. Barro, Preliminary findings from the expenditure comparability study (Washington, D.C.: SMB Economic Research, Inc., 1993); Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, 1986 Education in OECD countries: A compendium of statistical information (Paris: OECD, 1989); Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, 1988-90 Education in OECD countries: A compendium of statistical information (Paris: OECD, 1993); Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, School: A Matter of Choice (Paris: OECD, 1994); S.M. Burro, J.D. Sherman, R. Phelps, International Expenditures Comparability Study: Draft Report (Washington, D.C.: Pelavin Associates, Inc. and SMB Economic Research, Inc., 1994). Choice of Schools in Six Nations (Washington, D.C.: 1989); U.S. Department of Education, Office of Policy and Planning, International Education Comparisons (Washington, D.C.: September, 1992).
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