Mums? What about dads? Post Reply

[benaldo]

I disagree. You continued to a site which you found helpful despite the pink and mums welcome.
I feel it is your gender stereotypes that make you feel unwelcome in a pink page aimed primarily at mums.
Anyway, let's agree to disagree. Regardless, I am pleased you retracted the sexist part of your argument.

So the pinkness of the site is not aimed to appeal to women? And that in itself does not suggest it's not for men?
I did continue, but that's not to say those things aren't discriminatory - "a prejudicial distinction between different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex."

I think if we were all having this conversation anywhere other than the internet it would be a million times more amicable. It's not a great medium for tone.

Which is to say thanks for the debate and I hope you have a nice weekend!

[littlechicken]

I don't see there is anything wrong if this page is for mums and then lots of dads also find it helpful.
I was hoping the tone was amicable. As a side note, NappyValleyNet seems to be one of the friendliest places on the internet.
Have a great weekend, too.

[AbbevilleMummy]

I completely agree with all of littlechicken's eloquent points.

I once had to spend an excruciating meeting listening to 3 wealthy, white, middle-aged men complain about the discrimination they now had to 'endure' in post-apartheid South Africa and how they now felt they were disadvantaged!

[benaldo]

I once had to spend an excruciating meeting listening to 3 wealthy, white, middle-aged men complain about the discrimination they now had to 'endure' in post-apartheid South Africa and how they now felt they were disadvantaged!

That does sound excruciating. I apologise on behalf of all men. Please tell me you don't put my comments alongside that memory?!

[pie81]

I have very little sympathy for men saying things are sexist

I object to the stereotypes not because they exclude men but because the stereotypes hurt women too.

The more imagery we see of women being the ones at home, doing the housework, childcare and family admin, the more women are expected by society to take on those jobs (whether they want them or not) and the more men think these things are not their responsibility.

[benaldo]

I object to the stereotypes not because they exclude men but because the stereotypes hurt women too.

The more imagery we see of women being the ones at home, doing the housework, childcare and family admin, the more women are expected by society to take on those jobs (whether they want them or not) and the more men think these things are not their responsibility.

I completely agree, which is exactly why I pointed out that this website about parenting might help redress that if it weren't pink with a woman pushing a pram as its logo...

[Mjm]

Hi, no I don't work for the site. I'm a mum of two boys and work as a structural engineer. I am a strong proponent of equality for women but I also believe in fair treatment for all. You are clearly a dad interested in good parenting and that's fantastic. I think dads who take responsibility for childcare need all the support they can get and this forum should welcome them. Maybe Annabel would consider adding a dad to the logo and changing the colour - let's have that debate!

[benaldo]

I'd love to hear Annabel's thoughts.

[juliantenniscoach]

Is this not a WU? Eloquent perhaps but a WU nevertheless.

[AbbevilleMummy]

@benaldo, ha ha, no I don't put your comments next to those particularly unpleasant gentlemen, although your opening post did bring it to mind! No need to apologise on behalf of all men, unless of course you are an ageing, white, South African racist that is!

@Julian, pardon my ignorance, WU??

[OoloK]

I thought the same Julian, wondered if it is just not a troll.

It's almost like going into a women underwear shop and telling them they are sexist for not selling men boxershorts.

[littlechicken]

@abevillemummy that is so typical!
@Julian I am quite intrigued. What is a WU?

[sid_seal]

For what it is worth, I did hesitate before joining this forum as it looked (no offence intended) too "girly" for my taste - and yes, I am a woman!
I was looking for a local forum like other areas of London have, and couldn't find anything that was really active. So I would personally welcome it if this forum was rebranded as a "local forum" as opposed to a mums' forum; the mummy in high heels with a shopping bag in the logo is hardly representative of many mothers on this forum!

However, I appreciate that I cannot walk into an existing establishment and demand that it is renamed/rebranded to please me... but I think Benaldo triggered an interesting debate.

[benaldo]

For what it is worth, I did hesitate before joining this forum as it looked (no offence intended) too "girly" for my taste - and yes, I am a woman!
I was looking for a local forum like other areas of London have, and couldn't find anything that was really active. So I would personally welcome it if this forum was rebranded as a "local forum" as opposed to a mums' forum; the mummy in high heels with a shopping bag in the logo is hardly representative of many mothers on this forum!

However, I appreciate that I cannot walk into an existing establishment and demand that it is renamed/rebranded to please me... but I think Benaldo triggered an interesting debate.

Just to, for one last time, stick up for myself in this thread, I didn't exactly "walk in and demand it rebranded", and what I've raised isn't "to please me". It's a suggestion that would help redress the huge gender imbalance that works against women, which, @sid_seal, you've noted with your comments!

To @Julian - I assume WU is wind up, and it's not that. Please do just read what I've written.

@Oolok - I assume "it" is me, and no, I'm not a troll. As above, perhaps actually read what I've said.

If anyone can tell me how what I'm raising is not based in wanting a more gender-balanced world that would work better for women, then please do so.

And if everyone railing against my comments believes I'm saying that men should get a better deal, then I've not explained myself well enough. I'm pleased that enough people have responded positively and understanding my point to make me think I haven't just been spouting misogynistic, sexist rubbish.

And on that note I'm going to turn off my notifications for this thread and try and drop a note to Annabel (if that's possible? No idea how) to see what she thinks and clarify what I'm raising.

Hopefully she won't disregard me as an eloquent troll, or take my comments in a flurry of misbelief and think I've gone into a "women underwear shop and told them they are sexist for not selling men boxer shorts"; or that I'm demanding "hey where are the dads"; or that I'm "a bit rich for joining a site and making a fuss"; or that it's my own gender stereotypes that are at fault for noting the pink and girly nature of this site; or that because I pushed on past discriminatory language of a welcome message that means I haven't been discriminated against; or that describing the welcome email as "extremely, and pointlessly, sexist" means I'm describing the entire forum as the same (thanks @AbbevilleMummy); or that raising this point equates to "going to a gay forum and complain they don't talk about straight issues enough"

etc.... etc........
Thanks for the chat, all.

[benaldo]

I'm really suspicious of "Benaldo".

The MO is "hi, I'm new to this, I'm nice and am just asking for opinions" . Then within a dozen or so posts he becomes very intolerant of any other views.

I've been on NVN for a fair few years now and I think that this guy is just trying to wind us all up.

xx

Hadn't quite switched off the notifications in time!
I'm not 'new to this', I've been on the internet for a while. And I'm not intolerant at all, thanks - how do you think I am?

It's a shame you can't read my thoughts for what they are.