Honeywell Junior School New Ofstead Post Reply

[NorthcoteMum23]

Hi All

We are about to choose between Belleville and Honeywell for our child’s education. We have just been alerted to the new Ofstead report where Honeywell Junior school has dropped from Outstanding to Good. Has anyone got any experience of Honeywell and can share any advice (on either school) to help us make our overall decision.

Thanks!

[batterseamum2006]

Hi NorthcoteMum23.  I am a current Honeywell mum and have been for over 10 years (have 1 left in the Junior school).  I would 100% recommend the school to any parent - it has a lovely, relaxed and friendly vibe and all my children have absolutely loved their time there.  The Ofsted report is for the Junior School (Infant Sschool is still outstanding) and  (like many Ofsted reports) is really difficult to decipher but it appears that the curriculum hadn't been completely updated (but was almost there) and I think that some of the admin was not up-to-date.  It also seemed to suggest that there was too much emphasis on the national tests (which lots of parents would want anyway). The Ofsted inspection also  happened during the heat wave at almost the end of term.  It feels like this year things are finally going back to normal after Covid - the staff seem so engaged and have great plans like the new science/food tech lab .  I would visit both Belleville and Honeywell schools as nothing compares to visiting and getting a feel for which school you prefer.  I would also bear in mind that no school is perfect (I have friends with children in both who are not 100% happy) and different schools will suit different children.

[Pud2]

I honestly wouldn’t give the OFSTED report a second thought. School are being judged using a new framework and OFSTED have said that a high proportion of outstanding schools will be re-graded as good. Belleville is the only Wandsworth primary school to have maintained it’s outstanding judgement so far (since September 2021), but Honeywell remains an excellent school.

[Noddy1]

Hi there- I don’t know about the details of Honeywell’s report, but would highly recommend Belleville. My son has been there for three years and the quality of the curriculum and teaching is excellent. He is really happy there. The student body is diverse and the parents very much involved in activities etc. We do have to supplement extra curriculars but that’s true of any state school. Feel free to dm with any questions

[goalie]

Further to a previous reply, there are new policies in place at Ofsted that mean more frequent inspections (previously Outstanding schools didn’t need to get re inspected regularly) and something like a forced curve that fewer schools will be rated Outstanding. The vast majority of primary schools that were previously Outstanding are now getting rated Good upon inspection.

Re curriculum and more generally Belleville is part of a trust and has more resources across a number of schools for things that Ofsted look at eg curriculum.

I am a Honeywell parent by the way, was surprised myself by the new rating but did some reading and discovered the above. Belleville also a great school of course…you can’t go wrong!

https://ffteducationdatalab.org.uk/2022 ... y-schools/

[LavenderH]

My child has been at Belleville for 3 years and we are very happy with the school. Here are some extra data points which may help:
- it's a large school over 2 sites. Infant and Juniors are also part of the same school . This has pros and cons but overall I give them lots of credit for maintaining the Ofsted rating with all the new guidelines for a school that size.
- they are part of a trust. This allows them to have extra support (i.e. consultants that advice on the curriculum per subject, etc) but also helps with resource management. i.e. the previous head of Juniors is now headteacher in another school of the trust.
- Having a large student body means that there is lots of demand and supply for clubs. Our son does languages, chess, rugby, drama... as extracurriculars without leaving the school which for working parents is an absolute blessing.
- It's a very diverse school and community. Having more spaces on offer and a sensible sibling priority means the catchment expands reasonably beyond the BTC area. This means in turn lots of different backgrounds, nationalities and a mix of working and middle class families.

Hope this helps, as others have said you are very lucky to be in a position to choose from two excellent schools and I suspect whatever you choose you'd love.

[sid_seal]

I would trust a lot more a “Good” now than an “Outstanding” 12 years ago! 12 years is a long time in a school’s life, and any school can change significantly during that time, for better or for worse - many people go blindly for the outstanding schools without asking themselves if they are still likely to be so.
No direct experience of Honeywell or Belleville, although I know families who are very happy at both. As someone recommended, go and visit them, as well as other schools - not just the two that you are your most likely to put top in your list/get into based on distance. This will help you understanding what you like and what you are less keen on in a school, regardless of the inspections.

[school123]

If you're worried about a grade, just send your child to Belleville. If you're worried about which school your child will like more, go visit both to take your decision. They're both excellent schools despite whatever Ofsted rates them.

[KatherineHepburn]

I cannot comment on Honeywell but can confirm that Belleville is absolutely an outstanding school. 
All 3 of my kids have gone through the school and with the last two leaving at the end of this academic year I will be very sorry to no longer be a part of it.
Friendly parents, great PTA, brilliant learning and excellent teachers - you are very lucky to have it as an option. 
Do go and have a look around both schools during the next school tours, it really is the best way to get a feel for a school and to see if it is the right place for your child. 
As someone stated above lots of previously 'outstanding' schools have been downgraded to 'good' or less, it is a sign of how hard the staff at Belleville work that they retained theirs. 

[Pud3]

‘As someone stated above lots of previously 'outstanding' schools have been downgraded to 'good' or less, it is a sign of how hard the staff at Belleville work that they retained theirs.’

I’m afraid I think that’s a somewhat misguided comment, which implies that all of the schools that have been re-graded as good, have not worked as hard as the Belleville staff. I can assure you that is not the case! There’s a myriad of factors involved in an OFSTED inspection, and in the make up and demographic of schools. It isn’t just about how hard the staff work.

[Northcotemum123]

Hi
I am a Belleville mum and honestly, I have been observing Honeywell for a long time with envy and might end up transferring my child there.

I think Honeywell is a more nurturing school which provide a more rounded education than Belleville. Honeywell is also more of a community school whereas with Belleville's ever enlarging catchment means lots of people drive and bus to school, in and out of the area.

It is also nice that Honeywell are not desperately trying to squeeze a disproportionate amount of children in a building that can't cope with it or to a teaching/admin team (although excellent) that doesn't grow in line with the number of children. On webbs, the playground and buildings are far too busy, noisy and chaotic.

Despite all the faff with the (excellent) specialist teachers, Belleville is very focused on Maths and English to the point the school reports have no longer room for the side subjects and we get pages and pages of Maths and English reporting :(

if you child is arty, sporty or musical, it won't show at all on their school report, which may be an issue for transferring out for 11+/10+, where it is good to show a wide skillset.

Belleville also doesn't mix the classes until year 6 which isn't great for developing social skills, learning to make new friends and lots of kids find upsetting to be mixed at the very end, when year 6 is already a massively busy year.

The strength of Belleville is the teaching and supporting staff, so at the moment we are staying there for them (and the lovely friends we have made).
The OFSTED outcome is only one parameter guided by processes and there is, honestly, a lot more to a school.

[szerma]

I feel like I should make a disclaimer that I am a Belleville mum... although we did apply to both and only got accepted to Belleville. I have seen a few children transfer to Honeywell from Belleville over the years but never the other way - which makes me think Honeywell is a slightly more desired school (although one of the mums told me she did it because of after school care availability at Honeywell which, sadly, is very oversubscribed at Belleville).

I believe both Honeywell and Belleville are excellent school and we are incredibly lucky to have two such great state options on our doorstep. If you have a choice of either, visit both and see what appeals more to you. To some people the focus on English and maths and the availability of many after school clubs (which Belleville has plenty of) as well as the school uniform is the deciding factor for Belleville; others prefer the smaller school, greater focus on arts, and certainly a more intimate atmosphere given its size (Honeywell). I do not believe that anyone can honestly make a statement that one is universally better (or worse) than the other as they are simply somewhat different.

I think that whichever choice you make, your children are bound to enjoy it and will get a great education and experience at close to zero cost. 

Best of luck,
M

 

[Honeywellmum202]

I've been observing this thread closely and wanted to stay out of this conversation, now that my last child left for the senior school last summer. In total, I've been a parent at Honeywell for 12 years, it's a long time. In this time I've seen the school change massively, especially since the appointment of the new head three years ago. Yes, there are still some really good things about the school but, as I feel that this conversation is very one-sided and not representative, especially looking at the latest post, let me mention some facts:

- there are now no spelling tests at all. Never. In the past children were divided into three ability groups (which were fluid and children could move up or down depending on how well they did in tests). In the last years, it has been decided to stop testing and stop having three groups so all children are sporadically given the same 10 easy words to learn on which they won't be tested. So it's ok if you have a child that wants to practice and learn them for the sake of learning, not ok if you have a child who doesn't see the point if there is no test. It's even less ok if you have a child who is great at spelling and should be pushed with more challenging words. FACT

- the same goes for maths. In the past, children in later years were divided into three sets, depending on their ability. This allowed the children who struggled to work at their slower pace and catch up and the children who excelled to learn at greater depth and remain motivated. Now there are no sets at any stage and all children do the same things, and my daughter got almost no extension work, even if she asked for it. This way, the work in classrooms is geared towards children who are at the bottom or middle at best. This is great if you have a child who struggles, not so good if you have a child who is able and wants to do more. Having several super happy friends at Belleville I believe their Singapore approach to maths is amazing and very effective, for children at all levels. FACT

- Homework is inconsistent and often messy, with spelling mistakes. Sometimes it's given and sometimes it's not. Depends on the class, on the teacher etc. If you get a good teacher, you are probably fine. If you don't - there doesn't seem to be any central quality control or management. FACT

- Honeywell doesn't do much beyond maths and English either (I don't know how much Belleville does). My super arty daughter said most of their art classes were replaced with music...? And she only worked on one art project during the last year. Why? Got no response despite asking the question. French gets taught from an online app etc. FACT

- the number of teachers and staff who have left in the last years is shocking. Worth asking the head about it if meeting with her. Yes, all schools lose teaching staff these days but not at this rate. This was sad to watch, especially seeing some great experienced teachers leaving without jobs to go to. FACT

- Yes, Honeywell classes are now half empty. Some lost as many as 10 children or more, for different reasons, moving away from london or changing schools. Why? Another question worth asking. And while it may seem great to have less at school and the school is less full than Belleville - this means that the school also gets less funding as the funding is linked directly to the number of pupils. How is this decreased funding going to filter down and affect the school and the children? Another great question to ask. FACT

- As well as other things, Ofsted report mentioned lack of consistent approach to assessments and, consequently, missing gaps in knowledge and development through inconsistent / poor assessment process. I would see this as a major thing to consider, much more than any lack of necessary admin or box ticking that Ofsted also requires.

I could keep going but the point is only to balance this thread and make sure any prospective parents assess these schools with eyes wide open and armed with the right questions to ask. The point is that all is not well and, while I'm immensely grateful for everything the school has done for my three children, I'm not sure I would choose the school right now as it's not the place it used to be.

Good luck!

[Crazycow]

I must say, as a current Honeywell mum (too late for us to change now), I agree with most of the points in the last post. I would also add lack of communication from school. Emails go unanswered, everything is communicated on a need to know basis, there is no openness and no willingness to listen. Any concerns raised are treated as a challenge and met with defensive response. I think this is what upsets me the most. It feels like there is no way forward, no opportunity for discussion. The internal survey lady year was very far from favourable

[Socialbutterfly53]

I also have been thinking a lot about this post, but hesitated responding till now. I complete agree with Honeywellmum202’s post. I have a children who have gone through the junior school and one currently at the school. In many ways it is a lovely school with a nice community, but I’m not sure I would choose to send my child there now if they weren’t already in the school. OFSTED report aside, just from a parent’s experience, the Junior School has declined meaningfully in recent years.

Academically the school is not as challenging as it was. Any type of sets or streaming have disappeared (not to mention the disappearance of spelling words/tests, which the previous post mentioned, and which also used to be streamed).

We have raised requests in the past for more challenging work for one of our children and whilst the class teacher was receptive, there was only so much she could do. We queried the disappearance of streaming/sets with the senior leadership team of the school and were largely fobbed off. We never would have imagined a need to tutor our child who now is in secondary (apart from specific 11+ exam prep), but now tutoring just to supplement regular school learning seems either necessary or at a minimum a very good idea!

Beyond our own experience, the academic decline of the Honeywell is evident if you look at the school’s own results (available on governors’s newsletters on the school website). In 2017, pupils meeting expected standards was 94% whereas in 2022 it is 85%. Pupils achieving higher standards in 2017 was 31% whereas in 2022 it is 28%.

Many students have left the school in the middle of their junior school time (nothing to do with 10+). For example, one Year 4 class had about a third of students leave at the end of last academic year with a couple more leaving this autumn term. This has a significant impact on funding, which impacts all junior school students— and this at a time when funding is tight anyway.

That raises another issue of the leadership of the school, which is is rather lacklustre. The way the school leadership handled sharing the news of the OFSTED downgrade seems a good illustration of how they deal with most things: either whitewashing or dismissing.

The letter the school distributed with the OFSTED report said it was an “excellent outcome” and that the school is “stronger than it ever has been.” Those seem bizarre claims to make when (1) the school was just downgraded by OFSTED, (2) by its own data students’ academic performance has fallen and (3) students have left the school in concerning numbers, which impacts funding.

At the time, there was an informal WhatsApp message from the chair of governors that was forwarded around class WhatsApp’s explaining that the school was downgraded because OFSTED changed curriculum standards in 2019 and the school ran out of time to meet the new standards. But it seems odd to focus only on that when, actually, the school didn’t receive an outstanding rating in ANY of the OFSTED categories, not just curriculum. The other categories are: leadership & management; behaviour & attitudes; and personal development.

Also, class WhatsApp’s and the chat at the schools gates have been swarming with questions about the OFSTED report and the school’s strategy as a result, yet there has been no official forum for the leadership to field questions from parents about the OFSTED downgrade (for example, a virtual Q&A portal or in person information/Q&A session) and when asked, they have declined such requests. They will answer specific questions from parents on an individual basis, but it misses the point that everyone benefits from the questions asked from others/answers provided. It also feels like the leadership wants to hide from parents when previously it always felt that Honeywell had a very open, collaborative feel.

My children are happy enough at the school because of friends, etc, but I don’t know that I would choose to send my children there if starting from a blank canvas. Do look around for yourself, but be mindful and ask the right questions!