Ofstead reports of local state schools paint grim picture Post Reply

[NYE31]

I think education is a purely personal decision & as a parent, we should be able to decide what is right for the child at the time, even if that means changing your views. Education is so important & I get sick of hearing about people being criticised for making choices for their children.

DH & I decided even before our DS was conceived that he/she would be going to private school because that was what we wanted, however we reserve the right to change our minds just as you are entitled to change your mind.

Given some of the reports that I have read & what I have heard about some of the state schools in the NV area, I don't blame you.

[AbbevilleMummy]

I agree with NYE31 that it is a very personal decision, however, I wouldn't just go from what an Ofsted report says.

Go and visit the schools, both private and state and then make up your mind on what feels right for you and your family.

[LauraBrown]

Personally, I think likening our local schools to "mental asylums" is pretty offensive especially based on there being children with special educational meals, from less affluent backgrounds and/or who speak English as an additional language. Seriously?

If this is how you feel, I can see why you will want to go private and plenty of people do that partly to ensure a sanitised range of only affluent children. Which is a matter of personal choice.

However, if your concerns are about the standard of education on offer, I can offer my personal experience. There is a diverse range of children at my daughter's school from many backgrounds and ethnicities and, due to fantastic teaching and the aim that every child be the best they can be, I am very happy that she gets work of an appropriate level and is pushed to achieve the best she can.

I have said before on here that my daughter's year 2 work is on a par with what her peers in local private schools are doing.

Definitely worth having a look round and giving our state schools a chance before making up your mind...

[LauraBrown]

I meant special educational needs not meals!

[Helgibbs]

I agree with LauraBrown.

You need to get into the schools you are interested in and ask questions. I find your post narrow minded and quite offensive, but I am guessing it is your first venture in the Primary Education and you are just asking for advice.

I am an ex Primary school teacher and visited ALL the local schools with my husband and my daughter, before one in particular stood out for us.

My daughter was in a very mixed environment in all the ways you listed, she thrived, achieved well over the national average in all areas of the curriculum, and is now flourishing in her first term at secondary school.

It is all about finding what suits you and your family.

By the way, excellent teachers will ensure EVERY child in their class reaches their potential, no matter what challenges they face. You must have faith in dedicated staff who really care for the individual.

Good luck with your search.

Helen

[LauraBrown]

We-ell, the Ofsted reports do provide an accurate description of the stats around types of pupil. So, I guess for you to feel comfortable, you may need a change of mindset about what it means to have children living in poverty or with special educational needs or speaking other languages at home at a school. I think it is all part of the horizon-expanding experience of going to school in London. In answer to your questions:

- no: all "normal" kids are not somewhere else. Not many people can afford private school or to live in HW and BV catchment. These are the normal kids.
- no: these schools are not the scrap heap. Look at the results...
- no: children without any specific "problems" are noticed and can still thrive
- no: all the issues you mention are not synonymous with families who do not nurture their children. The vast majority of families from all backgrounds want the absolute best for their kids.
- no: good teachers can cater for a range of needs, lots of specific issues are addressed through TAs and separate sessions (eg language interventions); good teachers will have time for your child and quiet achievers are not ignored.
- no: these schools are not full of "troubled" kids who don't behave. I'm pretty sure most Ofsted reports would mention good/outstanding behaviour...

But the reports are accurate in their description of the types of children. It just doesn't lead to the scenario you think it does...

So, hopefully that helps...

[Midwifemummy13]

I am disgusted at the reference to state schools been "mental asylums" what an awful attitude to have and I hope this does not rub off onto your children. Just awful that's all I wish to say.
This site is full of pure & utter snobbery!!
YOU SHOUlD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!!!

[livegreen]

@Petal - so which local schools lead you to compare them to "mental asylums" ?

@Mungomuffit why do you want your child to have homework both in terms of quantity and quality. The only homework primary school children should do is reading and every study backs this up, in summary it is pretty much a waste of everyones time and schools will generally blame the parents for asking for it. Good schools, with good confident teachers will not set much, if any homework, as they know it serves little educational purpose. All primary schools teach english and maths every day so why would you need to do it in the evenings too. A school that gives a lot of homework at primary level is really asking the parents to teach the children as they are unable to. Let children play and enjoy their childhood, in year 3 they are only 7/8 years old - homework...bonkers!

[Erykah]

I started the process of state school applications with a heap of anxiety from all i had heard about the state of state ed in this area.

Having been state educated though myself I feel passionately about the state system and so went to see 6 Wandsworth/Lambeth schools as possible choices for my son. None of them are Belville or Honeywell. I came away encouraged and excited about state ed again.

I want primary ed to be a safe and fun place for my son where he can build good quality friendships with children of all backgrounds and abilities and enjoy learning. I do not want him to bogged down by copious heap of homework!

[LauraBrown]

Mungomuffit: we keep meeting on threads like this! I am a governor in one local primary and my daughter attends another (neither are HW or BV!) so I feel I have quite a good perspective on the state of local state education. I take your point about Y3 so I will observe with interest. I don't intend to go private for secondary so I guess that takes the pressure off a bit...

Petal: emotional and behavioural problems are not insurmountable. Check the Ofsted - I bet they all talk about good or outstanding behaviour; that wouldn't be the case if those with extra issues were not properly looked after and their behaviour managed.

I am not an idiot. I want my children to be the best they can be. I honestly believe this is enhanced by being at a good state school and being part of the vibrant and diverse community there. I used to really care about persuading other more affluent parents to consider our schools but have, over time, realised that we are doing just fine without them. Their loss. I think one of the biggest fallacies is that the quality of a school is indicated by the % of middle class parents. It's easy to be a good teacher at HW, the truly fantastic teachers are in the schools down the road...

[juliantenniscoach]

Wherever you meant to go with your post, I think it's pretty much dead in the water from the moment you wrote "mental asylums". Humour intended or not, it's offensive from any way you look at it.

There are some good non BV HW state schools in the area with some excellent staff. They might not meet your criteria but the issues you highlight are present in just about every school apart from the selective private ones who don't want the hassle.

[LauraBrown]

My private school comparison so far is mainly Hornsby so perhaps the known hothouses are vastly ahead! I was surprised by how similar the levels seem to be at Hornsby actually. I don't mean in terms of homework but in terms of what they seem to be learning eg what sort of words are given for spellings etc etc. My kid gets spellings to learn and number bonds/other sums/times tables for tests each Friday plus reading. I know this is not the same as other local state schools where they get more projecty stuff on thinking about a topic and writing something etc but personally I prefer this approach as it's a 10 min a day job and you can really see the progress.

I believe research shows that spelling tests are a waste of time too actually but I disregard this nonetheless...

My HW example was trying to make the point that actually the best teachers are most likely to be at the more mixed schools (like the 2 I am involved with).

Interesting point about Westminster... From what I can tell on here, to get into even a lesser selective school, kids need to be tutored so I would imagine, unless we're talking genius level children, serious extra work would be needed to get into THE most academic schools anyway. And I guess it depends on the child - some kids I know will choose to sit and do maths books rather than play with toys which I guess augments their learning whatever type of school they attend. Is the key issue for you around motivating children to go the truly extra mile? That is very important, I agree.

I know many people from top public schools through work and they ended up at the same universities and getting the same degrees as other state educated friends so I'm sure it can be a great experience but is not a necessary experience for success (and no doubt more kids from Westminster go to oxford because they get to select the top kids)... In my opinion, there is an acceleration required to get to the right level at 11 or 13 but that doesn't leave these people permanently ahead...

Very interesting thoughts though!

[livegreen]

@Mungomuffit - On homework I hope this helps....

"A review of academic research has found the impact of homework on primary age children is "inconclusive", while there is a "relatively modest" effect on older pupils. Time spent on homework had a small impact on pupils' results at secondary school, the 2001 review by the National Foundation for Educational Research found.
It quoted one study that found A-level students who spent seven hours or more on homework per week achieved results that were only a third of a grade higher than students of the same sex and ability who did homework for less than two hours a week."
Results from the OECD Pisa study, which compares school systems around the world, finds a strong association between children's reading performance at 15, and home activities such as discussing politics, talking about books or films and eating meals together as a family and no corralation with homework.
The Association of Teachers and Lecturers' annual conference voted in favour of abolishing homework for primary school pupils in 2009, saying it was "a waste of children's time".
Westminister is a highly selective school, both academically and financially, and would only be appropriate for very academic children from a wealthy background. You have obviously done your research on Newton Prep, how many children go onto Westminister out of their selective intake ?

@LauraBrown As you are a governor of a state primary I am surprised that you are making the claim that better teachers work in the "good" schools you are involved in, rather than other "outstanding" schools which obtain far superior Level 5 results. Have you any evidence for this. I do like people to support ALL teachers but there is no evidence for your claim.

[LauraBrown]

Apologies livegreen, I think my point has been overly laboured by me. And nothing to do with Honeywell per se so shouldn't have cited that school and wouldn't want to get into a debate about that individual case as have no inside knowledge.

Anyway, I don't think it is particularly controversial to say that generally, it is easier to be rated as a 'good' teacher in a school with a less challenging intake. I have heard that point made by more than one local headteacher (not from my school).

[LauraBrown]

Although absolutely not an excuse for mediocrity, no matter what school, all teaching should be aiming to be good/outstanding. And I'm sure 'posher' schools have their own challenges facing those teachers...