Is this discrimination? Post Reply

[Mum2Monkey]

Hello,

I've returned from maternity leave a few months ago and have found my job prospects and job role, to a lesser extent, have changed substantially. Due to my lack of prospects and the fact that I am now out of favour, I am considering changing jobs and have started having interviews. There are other jobs out there - which are a step up, better pay etc. But, I feel a little aggrieved that I am being forced to consider these as I do actually like the company I work for, have put a lot of effort into my team over the last 10 years and like the fact that I have opportunities for informal flexible working which I guess as a newbie I won't get in a new company. So, I don't really want to leave - but feel I have no choice.

So - I'm hoping for advice on 2 questions.
1. Is a change in job prospects discrimination
2. If yes, should I take this up with my company (I have had a very informal chat with boss who has told me that this is life and the teams moves on when you are maternity leave) and look at making a discrimination claim or should I just move onto a new company or just put up with it and take my reasonably good salary and opportunities for flexible working?

On the change in job prospects. I was on the Partner track at work and was very near to making Partner. I had a lot of support from Partners and there was a clear role for me in the team - working in a couple of areas which I had built up from scratch over the previous 10 years. I took 10 months of maternity leave. When I returned, I returned into the same team of 50, to the same job title and to the same responsibilities, pay etc. Except - I was no longer working in those two areas. A direct entry partner had been recruited into one of them. In the other, I was told they had another member of my team in mind to the partner in that area and I was told to stay away. I have been given a new area to start growing from scratch. I am getting very little support from senior team members to do this and seem out of favour. I have been told this new area is an opportunity and that if I can do it twice (in my last two areas) then I can do it again. But it will take years and therefore I am probably at least 5 years from Partner now, maybe more. I can't help but feel resentful when I see these men running my old 2 areas, which I built..... My boss says that I have to accept that the team moved on in my absence and that I have the same grade / responsibilities so what's the issue.

As well as progression prospects, it will obviously also affect my bonus since I can't make targets so easily in a brand new area.

Is this discrimination? I have the same grade, pay etc but far diminished prospects of promotion and bonus.


If it is - what do I do? Leave (and probably lose my informal flex working options), take it further (but what do I really achieve) or just put up with it and be glad that I actually have a secure job and reasonably good pay.

(As an aside, I think sexism is endemic in the organisation and various things have been said / done which would mean I could probably build a case of discrimination anyway - although would be a case of he said, she said).

Any advice appreciated!

[Annabel (admin)]

Hi
Thanks for using NVN to post this.

I've tweeted it "at" a wonderful employment lawyer called Jo who I am sure will reply/message you.

I am *not* a lawyer but my understanding is that if you are "worse off" for being on maternity leave then that is discrimination. i.e. if you missed opportunities or if you were passed over for promotion on account of being away then you are being discriminated against.

But, as I said, I'm not a lawyer.

I'm sure we'll get some more responses and I'm so sorry you're in this situation, I know how stressful and upsetting it is.

A

[JoEmpLawyer]

Hi there

This does sound potentially discriminatory to me, and certainly worth a chat. If you'd like, I am in the office (www.smab.co.uk) again on Thursday and would be happy to discuss for free, and confidentially.

I will post a link to my details (already elsewhere on here) in a second.

Kind regards,

Jo Martin

[JoEmpLawyer]

A link to a lovely recent recommendation is here:
http://www.nappyvalleynet.com/mums/view ... hp?t=51643 which also links on to my contact details.

If you could email me your employer's name, in confidence, to Joanna.martin@smab.co.uk, I can check we are not conflicted.

All the best,

Jo

[Mum2Monkey]

Thanks both - and Jo, it would be good to discuss. Thanks.

To other users on this site - even if this is discrimination, I wonder if I should just accept it and get on with it. Ultimately, I still have a reasonably well paid job, job security and opportunities for informal flex working (which I do value). Don't get me wrong - I work incredibly hard and feel a lot of resentment towards my boss and also (potentially unfairly) to those heading up my old areas. But, maybe as my boss says, I should be realistic and accept the commercial reality that the business world moves on when you on maternity leave and I did always have the option of coming back sooner..... After all, things aren't that bad and I have a good job, just not as good a one as I once did.

Would you just accept it and get on with it? What would I really achieve from a fight?

[BFW]

Hi there, since you ask for an honest opinion I will give you mine. I am sure many of you will disagree but this is what I think!

Before my first was born I ran an EMEA team for a big global city firm. I went back after my first maternity leave full time in the same role after 6 months. I then had my second baby and reassessed all my priorities!! I took a whole year maternity leave and went back 4 days a week. With that I had to realise that I could not have it all! I want to work 4 days a week, I want to leave the office at 5.30 to get hone to my kids and help with their homework and I want to get to the office later when they have an assembly / play/ sports day. As such I had to compromise on my career and I now work for a much younger man who works all hours and travels all the time! I dont resent that at all as it was completely my decision. I guess in your case it sounds like it isn't?
I do understand how you feel as sounds like you worked very hard (and very successfully) for 10 years for your company. And you might have very different aspirations to mine (my aspirations are on ice for a few years!). Just make sure you have clear in you head where you want to be in the next 5 years.

Good luck with it all! I remember those few months back at work well and I can understand your frustrations!

[Mum2Monkey]

Thanks or the advice.

I did consider the option of trying to slow down for a while and looking at this as a trade off - better life for lost prospects. But in reality, my job involves 12+ hours per day and 4 days isn't really an option due to the chaotic way in which my boss works. When I say I value informal working - I aim for 1 breakfast and 1 to 2 bedtimes per week with the occasional working from home for injections! I think maybe that's why I feel resentful - what's the point of all this without the carrot of partnership? At least if I was parter then I could afford great childcare, home help etc where as currently I am just struggling and can't see an end to this .....

Thanks again. Reallt interesting thought. Maybe I should just start leaving at 5.30pm and see what happens! It isn't as if I have much of a bonus to lose anyway!

[dlm28]

sorry i am a bloke and shouldnt be on this website, but came across this article and felt i had to reply.

To me, this sounds outrageous. You should not be made to wait longer for partnership status. I think it is reasonable that you are in another team as its true, sometimes the team has to move on in your absence. However if you are working just as hard as before you should insist that your partnership prospects are undiminished.

I work in the city and generally there is positive discrimination towards women in this situation in my experience. You should take Jo up on her offer for a consultation in my opinion.

Perhaps you should discuss this with someone more senior than your line boss as you dont want the fact your are threatening a discrimination case to get around the firm. Perhaps you should consult with Jo and go directly to the head of HR/compliance or CEO depending on size of company and explain. The head of HR will probably be in a position to tell the right person to put things right without it getting around the firm. Make them feel like a discrimination case is the last thing you want to do but its up to them to put things right first.

good luck.

[BFW]

Sorry - have having re-read the whole thread I also agree with dlm28 that there is generally positive discrimination towards women and I in fact got promoted just after I announced my second pregnancy.

I guess what I was trying to say in my post above (sorry it was not that clear at all but it was after.. a late night at work of course !) is to make sure you know what your priorities are for the next few years and what you want to achieve before you decide whether to fight this. I am not saying that you should compromise like me - thankfully not everyone is like me otherwise we would not have some the Marissa Mayers /Scardino /Wojcicki / Botin (etc) of this world !

Having said all of the above, I agree with the previous poster that there is no reason why you should wait longer for the partnership if this was promised to you before your maternity leave.

Good luck !

[tooposhtopush]

it IS discrimination.

if you're career has been put back because of events that happened whilst on mat leave then you HAVE been discriminated against.

its really really poor form and happens a lot

[oab]

Hi Mum2Monkey,

I had a similar situation ...
I work in the city, took almost 6 months maternity leave off (1st baby), then went back to work full-time (flexible working was not an option). On return, one of the best parts of my job had been given to someone else. I did not think it was discrimination (as business moves on...), however i could not/cannot stop being resentful about it. Changing company was one of the first things i thought about ..

I decided to get on with it in the short run (the job is still interesting, well paid, good team, i leave at 6 every day so i make it to "bath time"), have another baby and 2nd maternity leave, return to work and then look for a new job.

So my advice would be to make the situation work for you the best way you can...I know it feels frustrating, but don't act out of frustration, act with a clear head once you've decided what your priorities are.

I personally didn't consider going down the discrimination case route, I judged that it would probably take me nowhere, so it would be a wasted effort.

I do think though that you should try to leaving work earlier and see what happens. I am leaving about 1.5 hours earlier than before i had DS, and it somehow seems it is expected...

Good luck with it all!

[millymoo]

Yes this potentially does sound like discrimination but in my opinion I don't think you should take any sort of official action unless you are prepared to see it to the end which may involve not be able to work in the industry that you are currently employed in, sounds harsh but this is a reality. This is a very controversial area but I do think that businesses move on and decisions have to be made to support revenue generation/minimise client impact in the event of extended leave by employees (both men and women). You work in the City in a competitive profession and this is a tough place to be regardless of your family circumstances and desire for work/life balance. If you are ambitious and motivated to make partner then prove them wrong - the biggest mistake employers make is underestimating the potential of their employees and it sounds like you have been successful in demonstrating your value to the organisation pre-children. If you don't feel like you can achieve your career goals at your current firm then leave, yes, 10 years is a long time but it is a very short time in the context of your overall working life and if you have managed to make it work having a family and full time job so far then you owe it to yourself (and your family) to be as successful as you aspire to be.

Good luck, there is no magic solution to making all of this work but a very senior female colleague said to me recently, yes, women can have it all but just not all of the time so it sounds like you need to decide what your immediate priorities are and focus on achieveing them.

[millymoo]

Oh and I think you might be surprised that you would not loose your informal flexible working arrangements by leaving if you were able to identify that the culture of any new employer embraced this type of behaviour from the outset. It sounds like the culture of your team is not necessary supportive and they have pre-conceived ideas about your working arrangements given that you have returned from mat leave (my immediate boss was v surprised that I returned from mat leave at all after number 2! I think he has got over that now that I am 18 months back into the job).

[Laura35]

I think this sounds like discrimination and you should get professional advice on how to deal with it. sounds like you've put a lot into this company and you deserve the partnership position more than the men who were in the right place at the right time when you were on mat leave.

If you work through a solution to this, it won't only be for yourself but all the other women who are put in this position!

[AbbevilleMummy]

If I were you I would think about what you would achieve if you were to take this further within your current firm. I find it hard to believe that by making a fuss, everything would return to how it was before and that you would be in better position for partnership than you are currently.

Becoming partner is a very cliquey affair and putting other partners' noses out of joint will not help your aspirations for partnership.

A better tactic if you wanted to stay would be just prove them wrong and 'lean in' to your career and and do for a 3rd time what you have done twice before.

But to be honest, if I were you, (and what I actually did myself) would be to take it easy, get pregnant again, have another long mat leave, and then throw myself into my career 100% once I had decided that I would not be having any more children.