Advice about nanny "perks" - extra income? Post Reply

[Mum2Alex]

Hi all,
Just wanted to seek the wisdom of the group. My nanny cares for my child 5 days a week and another family's child 3 days a week. We have a complex (and financially crippling!) agreement about her pay, tax, insurance etc and how this is fairly shared.

She has now asked to care for an additional child on the days she usually just has my little girl on an ad hoc basis to cover for another nanny. For this she will be paid cash in hand by the other family and thereby earn double her usual rate for those days. We would continue to pay her as if she were only taking care of our child. She would be based at their house and unable to go out (no double buggy).

I said I was happy for this on the basis that we have done extra days for the other family in our nanny share - costs shared between the 2 families, she gets a premium for caring for 2 children.

She is quite angry that I don't understand that this is one of the "perks" of being a nanny and suggests that this happens all the time that they cover each other. I don't want to be unfair, if that is the case, but when she has taken sick days and personal days there has been no mention of any such offers...

Help!

Thanks

[2009Kat]

Never heard of that as a "perk"!
I have agreed the odd one off but usually the other family gave me some cash towards the nanny and the nanny the extra.

[kiwimummy]

No, your nanny is very wrong. If you agree to this, you have a share those two days, and you pay share rates, assuming you are comfortable with the arrangements as you are entitled to say no to the share as her employer. I'd expect the other family to be giving me the money, and she gets a small uplift in her hourly rate.

That said, the other family are VERY stupid for paying cash in hand and for me I'd veto the arrangements on that basis as I wouldn't want to be a part of it. You will be paying her taxes (I assume) and if you are then you will be making filings with HMRC on the basis of information you know is actually wrong as she's earning more.

Rather unhelpful of me to add, but she sounds like a PITA to me if that's her attitude. She has a job those two days. Taking a second job without your employer's consent in working hours is not a "perk". Tax avoidance is also not a "perk".

If she is outraged and annoyed at whatever your decision is, start looking for a new nanny.

[NorthcoteNanny]

This is very normal in my circle of nanny friends. We have all at some point covered another for appointments, days off etc and because all the children know each other and know each other's nannies, it works really well.

The extra cash is minimal in comparison to our salary and is definitely a "perk" - I don't think she is being unreasonable as a one off, perhaps if it was weekly or long term then you'd obviously need to sort tax but as a one off is pretty normal from my experience!

[Mum2Alex]

Interesting discrepancy in responses!

The difficulty comes because we have agreed flexilibilty with the nanny share about the other days and if she is double booked I don't want them inconvenienced. There won't be a chance for any reciprocal care from other nannies because taking care of 3 or 4 is just too much and our nanny tends to take personal or sick time on a Friday when she is due to have both babies.

The tax avoidance piece is interesting - I must say I can't stand on my high horse as I look the other way about her doing additional evening babysitting cash in hand.

I think I would have been more likely to agree if it hadn't been for the attitude (I'm apparently giving stress to a family who always host play dates, feed my child (I don't ask for this!) and who are going through IVF). I just wanted to chat it through with the other mum. Apparently that is unreasonable and it's clear my nanny doesn't want me to contact her.

I'm now feeling quite wobbly about the whole situation.

[mamabel]

i'm inclined to agree with kiwimummy...

unless this is really just a one off day? sounded like she intended to be more regular thing in your OP...

[Mum2Alex]

It was for several days this time.
And she expressed that she would plan to do it for other families in the future - but she has taken several last minute personal and sick days in the past few months and the prospect of one of her friends "covering" her has never been raised.
I'm left feeling very awkward that she considers I have a debt to a family who often host play dates (we are happy to host, but she has never arranged play dates at our house) and that I am somehow depriving her of her additional income (she is very well paid with lots of flexibility)

Aren't nannies supposed to make your life easier?!

[Doney45]

I think in this situation I would agree and let the nanny earn some extra cash. I would however suggest that it is on the condition the favours returned for your family.
So if you need holiday cover/sick cover for your family your guaranteed .

I know a friend who needed emergency childcare cover and used another family's nanny and paid £4o pounds to the parents and thirty to the nanny. Everyone was happy with this agreement

[NightNanny]

It doesn't sound like you have a very high opinion of your nanny?

When I was a nanny five or so years ago, I would often as you put it "cover" nanny friends not just for me to earn extra (obviously that is nice) but also because the children know each other and are comfortable with the nanny as they are often playdate friends etc.
The family I worked for didn't know them but trusted me with two sets of children and were happy that if they ever needed cover, even if the nanny was being paid twice for that short time, their children were in good capable hands instead of paying for emergency/last minute childcare which for the same price can be hit or miss.
Having said that I had a great relationship with my nanny family and they trusted me completely and were happy for me to earn some extra money as it was only on the rare occasion so didn't really make that much difference to how their children were being cared for (to be honest the kids probably had more fun on these days!)... Im not sure it sounds like you trust your nanny in this way?

Have you discussed your points with your nanny? I would talk to her about it. You clearly have different expectations. The difficulty with venting on these forums is that your nanny may well end up seeing this if you are local to the area (many nannies check this too not just parents!). Communication is key for a good parent/nanny relationship.

[Mum2Alex]

To be clear, there has never been any proposal to pay us - that's part of the issue. I pay through the nose for 1:1 care on a Monday and Tuesday.
I don't mind if she wants to earn more cash, but not at my expense!

I have discussed it with her - and said I would seek the wisdom of the group. I had never heard of this arrangement until it was raised yesterday and needed to know how other families managed it. Clearly there is some variability...

I trust my nanny completely in regards to childcare and she is wonderful withy little girl. I do find it difficult sometimes when I feel I am being pressured into something I am not prepared for - it shouldn't have come across that I don't have a high opinion of her, far from it. My apologies if it came across that way. I do feel we all need to work on communication though.

There is nothing on this forum that I wouldn't be happy for her to see -
It is interesting that the parents are suggesting that some financial arrangement should be made between the families and the nannies feel it should be sorted out informally with the nannies!

[Mrs Contractor Mum]

My biggest concern from everything you have written is that she can't take the children out anywhere during those days due to lack of double buggy. I don't know your child's age but does she still sleep during the day? What about fresh air or other activities they normally do?

Also, have you met the family she is taking your child too? Play dates are one thing and maybe I've been too cautious but I wouldn't want my nanny taking my child to another person's house that I've never met to look after another child especially if I am paying them for sole charge care. Plus it's not for a few hours, it's several days and likely to be regular. As her employer you have a right to say no. She also has a right to say the arrangement isn't working for her and then you are stuck with looking for a new nanny.

I would ask yourself if you are really happy for your child to be taken to random peoples houses for full days on a regular basis? If you are then negotiate the rate you are willing to pay. If not, make your feelings clear.

[Mountain.girl]

It sounds like you need to discuss with her if there is a way for her sick and personal days to be covered as this seems to have become an issue.

I have been a nanny but this wasn't an issue that ever came up for me. I don't think that you are being unreasonable by insisting that she gets the nanny share rate on these days. To me this seems a personal choice for families to make and either decision can be justified. I do ditto others in making sure you are comfortable with your child being taken to someone else's house and not be able to get out that day.

[Sessa84]

When I worked as a nanny in SW18, my families (I worked in a nanny share and they all lived in the same street) had an agreement to let me and let the neighbours' nannies cover each other sick days/Gp or dentist appointment.
I don't understand what personal days are: are they a special holiday due to a friend's wedding or similar/study days etc?
We would earn £12net for our standard nanny share, £16 if caring for the kids of an other family. The parents would somehow top up the tax between each other. Looking after 3/4 kids is very challenging in a home environment, especially in the kitchen and bathroom area.

I would never ever let my nanny take my precious child to a house of people that I do not know or a house that I have not personally visited myself to assess health and safety.
What if you think that the other child does not suit your child personality? What if in this house there are broken safety gates and your child tumbles down the stairs? What if in the garden there is an open pond/wild poisonous berries?
You are paying full fee for a service you will not be getting and for your child to be stuck indoor all day. You could send your child to nursery to be shut all day between 4 walls and save a small capital.
I think your nanny it is not reasonable, she is behaving in an irresponsible manner and she is bullying you into this situation hoping that you will not bother as you are too busy with work. My personal advice as a nanny/mum to be is look for an other nanny! Explain your concerns to the other family in the nanny share and look for a brand new nanny! You have grounds to dismiss her and believe me you will find a better nanny interviewing in a week end!

[Doney45]

A nanny working 45 hrs a week will know all the other local children from music groups,playground,if she's the one attandidng these classes.


Suggesting children can only play at people's houses I know would mean the children would be the ones missing out.

If you trust your nannies judgment you should be 100% sure
She would only take them somewhere safe.

[Mum2Alex]

I absolutely trust her judgement about safety and suitability of playmates.

I think when it comes to financial matters, I would be happier to at least have had a conversation on the phone with the other family about expectations.

The other child lives in a big house with a big garden, so I guess for a day it wouldn't be bad to be without transport - but it might well mean that our timings are put out depending on the hours they need.

I'm feeling less aggrieved today and recognise that I probably shouldn't have vented on this forum. I am glad I asked the original question though, as I genuinely didn't know if I was being as unreasonable as I was made to feel! It seems that some families are totally ok with this, and some are much more didactic about play dates than we are (our little girl goes on about 5 per week which I must say I was surprised by).

Anyway, my little girl is happy and well cared for and I'm the big bad ogre for now who limits perks. But out nanny does get a paid half day off about once every 3 weeks and sometimes more, along with lots of independence and no real "nursery duties"... So I guess I have some redeeming features!