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Re: Woman suffers six puncture wounds as she is mauled by fox while sleeping in bed at her London home

by sloaney donkey » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:06 pm

Hi 1.8m red head,

No problemo ... I know where you are coming from and fully respect your view. It has been a most fruitful debate.

I am having a BBQ this weekend and would love to chat. Tell you what: We provide the charcoal and baps and you bring the meat (but not horse meat ... I can never bring myself to eat that stuff).

Speak soon,

SP

Re: Woman suffers six puncture wounds as she is mauled by fox while sleeping in bed at her London home

by sixfootredhead » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:18 pm

Sloaney Pony wrote: ↑Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:13 pm Observation:- many medicines we rely upon to keep us alive were tested on animals. At a terrible pain to the animals.

Observation:- being slaughtered is a terrible process, no matter how quick and even if all the CO2 is diverted from brewers to slaughterhouses. And most of us eat meat.

Observation:- many nappy valley people go pheasant shooting in 'the season' (anyone got 'half a gun'?). Yes, I saw the jones getting into the landrover clean on Friday, and dirty on Sunday !

Observation:- bullfighting is allowed in Spain and the bulls lead the life of Riley before going into 'the ring'. And the matadors are worshipped as heroes.

Just observations.

Because we draw the line at foxhunting, so the above is all OK.
None of it is ok. Certainly not to me. I don’t worship anyone who goes shooting or sticking pointy things in bulls. It’s absolute cowardice and arrogance - two character flaws not qualities.

Hence why personally I exclude and reject all exploitation and use of animals in so far as it is possible (obviously medicines are more difficult but I source vegan alternatives where they exist).

It’s perfectly possible to live on this earth and have a philosophy of doing the least harm. Doesn’t make me perfect so I’m not on a high horse. Maybe I step on an ant inadvertently or buy a toy for my kids which has been packaged by a 9 year old in Cambodia but I do my best and I certainly don’t need to promote the extermination of foxes in because they’re a nuisance.

Happy to debate his ad nauseum but (a) I think we’re going slightly off topic and (b) I’m not sure we’re ever going to see eye to eye so I shall take my leave from the topic unless anyone wishes to discuss transitioning to a cruelty free lifestyle in which case I’d be delighted to help!

Re: Woman suffers six puncture wounds as she is mauled by fox while sleeping in bed at her London home

by sloaney donkey » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:13 pm

Observation:- many medicines we rely upon to keep us alive were tested on animals. At a terrible pain to the animals.

Observation:- being slaughtered is a terrible process, no matter how quick and even if all the CO2 is diverted from brewers to slaughterhouses. And most of us eat meat.

Observation:- many nappy valley people go pheasant shooting in 'the season' (anyone got 'half a gun'?). Yes, I saw the jones getting into the landrover clean on Friday, and dirty on Sunday !

Observation:- bullfighting is allowed in Spain and the bulls lead the life of Riley before going into 'the ring'. And the matadors are worshipped as heroes.

Just observations.

Because we draw the line at foxhunting, so the above is all OK.

Re: Woman suffers six puncture wounds as she is mauled by fox while sleeping in bed at her London home

by Star » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:13 pm

I love foxes and think they are gorgeous creatures, although the blood curdling screeches that occasionally wake me up are not so nice. Fox hunting is hideous and not something I could ever accept no matter how traditional it is, just like bull fighting and FGM. Some traditions just have no place in civillized society.

About urban foxes, the problem is simply exposed rubbish bags. I note Glenburnie rd in Tooting Bec on the junction with Trinity rd has many new flats that used to be shops. I'm not pleased that these developments are approved by the council with no space for bins. Rubbish bags are placed on the narrow pavement making it hellish for everyone especially disabled people and those with buggies. Of course we are going to have too many foxes who live off the plentiful rubbish and are getting bolder around humans and potentially dangerous.

Re: Woman suffers six puncture wounds as she is mauled by fox while sleeping in bed at her London home

by sixfootredhead » Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:51 am

Sloaney Pony wrote: ↑Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:38 pm My old friend from our days at Cheltenham Ladies once said “Foxhunting = Rentokil on a horse”.

I have to say that I was very sad when I had to hang up my red jacket for the last time. A lot of countryside traditions and jobs (including my late Husband’s) depended upon ‘the hunt’ in our local area. It was never the same again.

Redhead 1.8m ... please don’t be so impolite. Banter like that would be banned from Cheltenham Ladies’ debating society.
‘A lot of countryside traditions and jobs....depended upon the ‘the hunt’.... is about as good a justification as saying a lot of traditions and jobs depended on slavery as an industry. Seriously - are you attempting to justify a cruel/immoral act on the basis of tradition?!

Although I can assure you that I would at no time ever seek or have sought entry to Cheltenham Ladies’ Debating Society, I would have no problem debating this issue with anyone who thinks it’s ok to take another creature’s life on the basis of sport or tradition (or indeed any other reason - perhaps other than survival in a life or death scenario) and thankfully the majority of people agree with me (at least on the fox hunting part).

Have a great day.

Re: Woman suffers six puncture wounds as she is mauled by fox while sleeping in bed at her London home

by johnnythunders » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:21 am

So our recent experience:

1. Our daughter woke up at 0700 to find a fox on top of her duvet (entry gained via French windows being left open by mistake)

2. A’s my wife chased the fox out it grabbed my leather wallet, never to be seen again

3. The following evening 2100 I was working on a laptop in the front room, lying face down and wearing shorts when I felt something sharp on my leg. It was a (the?) fox nuzzling my leg

Not an urban myth, reality

We have in previous years had a vixen and four incredibly cute cubs take up residence under our shed. Within a few weeks it was like having five fully grown dogs in residence and they completely trashed our garden. We waited until the cubs were fully grown and then boarded over their lair.

Absolutely no idea what we do about urban foxes but if anyone is nostalgic to see them I suggest you move to Southfields!

Re: Woman suffers six puncture wounds as she is mauled by fox while sleeping in bed at her London home

by sloaney donkey » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:38 pm

My old friend from our days at Cheltenham Ladies once said “Foxhunting = Rentokil on a horse”.

I have to say that I was very sad when I had to hang up my red jacket for the last time. A lot of countryside traditions and jobs (including my late Husband’s) depended upon ‘the hunt’ in our local area. It was never the same again.

Redhead 1.8m ... please don’t be so impolite. Banter like that would be banned from Cheltenham Ladies’ debating society.

Re: Woman suffers six puncture wounds as she is mauled by fox while sleeping in bed at her London home

by chorister » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:11 pm

I don't think this is really the forum for such a debate, and am sorry I started it. I will therefore confine myself to saying that liberalism, if it means anything, means empowering people to make meaningful decisions and choices for themselves. One of the great challenges that liberals face is how to react when people use that empowerment in ways that are not illegal, but result in choices of which we (yes, I'm one of those liberals) do not approve. You seem to feel it is OK to condemn. I feel much more uncertain and less righteous.

Re: Woman suffers six puncture wounds as she is mauled by fox while sleeping in bed at her London home

by sixfootredhead » Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:33 pm

Wow. Another tolerant liberal. There is so much truth in the old aphorism that "there is nothing as intolerant as a proselytising liberal". Personally I'm against fox hunting and would never do it, despite being brought up in the country, but I'm not sure what right I have to condemn people who feel differently. You obviously think you do have that right.
[/quote]


If by tolerant liberal you mean respectful of all life, human and non-human animal, and not an arrogant human who thinks we have the right to blunder through life decimating everything that gets in our way then yes, that’ll be me.

I think you’re getting the concept of ‘rights’ confused and consequently I think it’s ok to condemn people who indulge in or are in favour of acts/system/hobbies that create victims.

Just as I would condemn someone who was sexist, homophobic etc (arguably in their mind they have the ‘right’ to hold those beliefs) I condemn people who think it’s ok to hunt animals for sport/pleasure etc.

Do you not feel that you have the right to speak out against people who hold unjust or immoral views?

Re: Woman suffers six puncture wounds as she is mauled by fox while sleeping in bed at her London home

by chorister » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:12 am

sixfootredhead wrote: ↑Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:02 am Bring back fox hunting??? I think you’ll find that most people are totally against this barbaric ‘sport’ so good luck with that!

In the meantime, perhaps you could set aside some time to locate your heart. I think you might find it lodged up your backside somewhere.

Have a great day.

#bekindtoeverykind
#compassion
#empathy
Sloaney Pony wrote: ↑Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:41 pm It sounds like the scene in 'the godfather' where the film producer wakes to find his severed horses head under his sheets.

Can't believe a rogue fox is causing as much trouble as the mafia.

Bring back fox hunting, I say !
Wow. Another tolerant liberal. There is so much truth in the old aphorism that "there is nothing as intolerant as a proselytising liberal". Personally I'm against fox hunting and would never do it, despite being brought up in the country, but I'm not sure what right I have to condemn people who feel differently. You obviously think you do have that right.

Re: Woman suffers six puncture wounds as she is mauled by fox while sleeping in bed at her London home

by sixfootredhead » Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:02 am

Bring back fox hunting??? I think you’ll find that most people are totally against this barbaric ‘sport’ so good luck with that!

In the meantime, perhaps you could set aside some time to locate your heart. I think you might find it lodged up your backside somewhere.

Have a great day.

#bekindtoeverykind
#compassion
#empathy
Sloaney Pony wrote: ↑Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:41 pm It sounds like the scene in 'the godfather' where the film producer wakes to find his severed horses head under his sheets.

Can't believe a rogue fox is causing as much trouble as the mafia.

Bring back fox hunting, I say !

Re: Woman suffers six puncture wounds as she is mauled by fox while sleeping in bed at her London home

by sloaney donkey » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:41 pm

It sounds like the scene in 'the godfather' where the film producer wakes to find his severed horses head under his sheets.

Can't believe a rogue fox is causing as much trouble as the mafia.

Bring back fox hunting, I say !

Re: Woman suffers six puncture wounds as she is mauled by fox while sleeping in bed at her London home

by delsh » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:08 pm

Normally I would be firmly on the “protect the fox” side of the fence but last night at about 3AM we heard noises in our spare bedroom. We thought it was our cat playing with something but went in and discovered a fox cub playing with our laundry in there!

We have a 15 month old who was asleep just down the landing and thank goodness her door was shut (it had been open earlier in the evening) and it was only a cub who was very sweet, but it did give us a shock that it had entered our house. We’re not sure how it got in - it might have been small enough to squash itself through the cat flap, or it may have climbed up our neighbour’s hedge and awning and through the open first floor window, but either way I think that and the story reported at the beginning of this thread should serve as a warning to be aware of wildlife entering your homes at night while the weather is so warm and we likely all have windows and doors open.

Re: Woman suffers six puncture wounds as she is mauled by fox while sleeping in bed at her London home

by sixfootredhead » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:01 pm

dudette wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:33 am Well said sixfootred! Foxes are urban wildlife, not vermin. Why are we so arrogant to think that only we humans have a right to occupy any particular place. What a dreary old world it would be if we didn’t have any other creatures in our cities. I haven’t seen an urban fox for ages now and I always get a thrill when I see one - even if it is eating out of my bins!
So true. But sadly humans are arrogant and selfish which is how we end up paying for the killing of 60 billion land animals for food each year when it’s totally unnecessary.... but that’s another topic entirely.

I, like you, appreciate urban wildlife and all animal life. It’s really humans that need exterminating if we base our decision on how much damage a species does to its environment and fellow creatures.

Re: Woman suffers six puncture wounds as she is mauled by fox while sleeping in bed at her London home

by dudette » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:33 am

Well said sixfootred! Foxes are urban wildlife, not vermin. Why are we so arrogant to think that only we humans have a right to occupy any particular place. What a dreary old world it would be if we didn’t have any other creatures in our cities. I haven’t seen an urban fox for ages now and I always get a thrill when I see one - even if it is eating out of my bins!

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