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Re: Losing Sept School Deposit Rant

by Scottov » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:21 pm

nuttymummy wrote:Hmmm, haven't noticed anyone ranting & personally certainly not at UK law, that is what's protecting Joe Public here...
Only point being made is that this is an area covered by UK law in aforementioned posts.
Feel free to check out The Guardian and other UK press coverage of the experiment previously mentioned!
Happy Evening!
Look this is pretty simple. These contracts are drafted by UK lawyers for use in UK schools across the country, and they are legal. quoting the Washington post is missing the point.

Nothing is going to change this, they have been enforced in court successfully over many years.

Let me give you the names of some leading education sector lawyers and if you want to challenge them and say that these contracts are not legal because of some blog of whatever frivolity you read in thr guardian go ahead:
Veale wasborough vizards
Farrers
Stone king

Between them they represent the majority of independent schools and nurseries in this country. they also draft these contracts, and litigate their enforcement.

Re: Losing Sept School Deposit Rant

by nuttymummy » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:00 pm

Re: Losing Sept School Deposit Rant

by nuttymummy » Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:49 pm

Hmmm, haven't noticed anyone ranting & personally certainly not at UK law, that is what's protecting Joe Public here...
Only point being made is that this is an area covered by UK law in aforementioned posts.
Feel free to check out The Guardian and other UK press coverage of the experiment previously mentioned!
Happy Evening!

Re: Losing Sept School Deposit Rant

by Scottov » Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:41 pm

The fact that you quote a US news source in a rant about UK law is concerning.

But the simple fact is that these clauses are legal, are road tested, and tend to be industry standard documentation prepared by top flight lawyers- not random things knocked up over coffee.

Challenge it all you want. It's your money

Re: Losing Sept School Deposit Rant

by nuttymummy » Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:59 pm

T&Cs, whatever company/school they are from, have to comply with the law. The hassle is that someone (ideally commercial/contracts lawyer who will be able to DIY it to 'test the case'!) will have to be the first. Just because the document states something or other it doesn't mean it's contractually binding if it can be demonstrated to be unfair. In simple terms what is being said here is that IF the place can be filled by another candidate there is no material loss to the institution and therefore no more than an administrative penalty should be charged. The attached article gives an extreme example but does explain why the relevant laws exist....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/spea ... s-anymore/

Re: Losing Sept School Deposit Rant

by Scottov » Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:41 am

pie81 wrote:Yes nanny, what you're missing is the law on penalties and the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations.
If only the lawyers who drafted the contract knew about these regulations...

The terms are very clear, and whats unfair is expecting only one party to hold up their end of a legally enforceable contract.

If the school wanted to refund the deposit and not hold the place because it suited then to do so, what would the response be?

This is a normal commercial contract and telling someone they don't have to abid by it is not helpful

Re: Losing Sept School Deposit Rant

by rugby » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:28 pm

Thanks Bubs in that case I may be sorry

Actually most people agree that retaining deposits, other than in cases of extremely bad behaviour, is only reasonable when the vacated place is not filled.

Frankly other than last week or two, unfilled places in Wandsworth schools are pure carelessness!

Re: Losing Sept School Deposit Rant

by Bubs » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:24 pm

I think the previous poster was referring to the main thread, as opposed to my brief tangent from it (sorry!)

Re: Losing Sept School Deposit Rant

by rugby » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:21 pm

balhamorbust please read the post - they are in clear breach of duty of care and probably criminally negligent.

The Contract isn't going to stand the test of reason in this case and reason is the law

Re: Losing Sept School Deposit Rant

by Bubs » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:19 pm

I rather got the impression that because my daughter's allergies were not anaphylactic, they didn't get the focus they perhaps should have.

I'll let the nursery managment respond to my communications first, before I take the matter further, or name them. I think that's fair. They have said so far that an investigation has shown that they followed procedure correctly, but to my mind they have been unable to demonstrate/prove this sufficiently to me.

Re: Losing Sept School Deposit Rant

by NYE31 » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:15 pm

@ Bubs, please do "share" the name of that nursery so that none of us can ever use it, that is so shocking, what about peanut allergies etc? would they be vague on those?

Re: Losing Sept School Deposit Rant

by balhamorbust » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:08 pm

At the end of the day, these are businesses. I would think you would be very disappointed if you gave a deposit and they did not give your child a spot because 'unforeseen circumstances' came up and they gave it to someone else. That is why we have contracts and deposits to protect both parties interests.

I have given 2,500 for next year's school and if I leave town, then that is my fault. But, until then I have the confidence I have a secured place.

I would expect ALL nurseries to uphold these contracts/deposits, because what is the point of them if they can all be broken. It is business, not personal.

Re: Losing Sept School Deposit Rant

by Bubs » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:30 am

I'm pursuing it. Awaiting a reply from someone higher in the company, and depending on what she says I will be thinking of doing something along those lines.

Being unable to say for certain what an allergic child has eaten whilst in their care is just not on.

Then charging the parents a fortune for the 'pleasure'.

She's now at a nursery who, whenever they even do any food-related activites, send me home a list of all ingredients they'll be using in advance to check she's ok with them. Without me asking. Without making me feel like an over-anxious mother. Thank heavens for the good ones.

Re: Losing Sept School Deposit Rant

by rugby » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:14 am

Sounds like criminal negligence to me.

Ask for last term fees and all deposits to be returned. Get a lawyer friend to write the letter.

You should have kept the upchuck in the freezer!

Re: Losing Sept School Deposit Rant

by Bubs » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:54 am

A similar tale here, though for slightly different reasons.

My daughter was at a local nursery, and she has non-ige allergies to soya, dairy and egg. The nursery were told not to feed her these things, I provided medical reports to back this up, and gave a detailed summary of her history and how her condition (it's part of a larger condition) affects her.

Yet, on two (possibly three) occasions, the nursery were vague in what they'd given her to eat .....

"noodles"
"those noodles?" (plate in front of me)
"yes"
"they have egg"
"errrr, no, not those, she had *nudging one another* special rice"
"what brand?"
"errr"

And on it went. My daughter was violently sick on two occasions, she's old enough to tell me what she ate and when she did tell me, it was something she shouldn't have. In fact I saw it for my own eyes, on the way back up shall we say (!!!). Yet they disputed it.

Needless to say, we left, and put her somewhere that could cater better to her needs.

She'd been there 12 weeks, tops. Yet we were charged the registration fee (fine, we had accepted that) but one month's notice too - despite us feeling hugely uncomfortable with leaving our child there, and despite them ever (still to this date) telling me/her consultant/her dietitian exactly what she'd eaten to make her so unwell. We even paid that, we aren't ones for confrontation and we were more concerned for our daughter's health frankly. £600 down at this point. Still no replies to emails, still no word on what she'd eaten, still no results of the'r 'investigation into the incidents'.

Then, they call me, at work, to say we owe £78 more.

I can let you imagine my response. Utterly furious.

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