Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

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JoanHolloway
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby JoanHolloway » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:56 am

@ Francesca
CG gets 777 applications for the 150 places available.
However, if parents from Northcote were actually amongst the 777 applicants, then your children would get places. There are a lot of children at CG who reside in Batttersea ; anyone at Clapham Junction station at home time, can see for themselves how many CG children are around.
In addition, the majority of my son's friends at CG actually attended Belleville. The places are there if people want them.....
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schoolgatesmum
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby schoolgatesmum » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:45 am

But Belleville and Honeywell alone have about 180 students leaving Y6 each year. And this will increase by 30 in a few years because of the extra class at Belleville. By my calculations that's more than all of the places available at Chestnut Grove. And there obviously are children from Belleville at Chestnut Grove - I thought you said parents from Belleville and Honeywell aren't supporting their local school? My children are at Belleville and they wouldn't get into Chestnut Grove - I've looked at the distances. I live North of Belleville - not everyone lives on the doorstep of Belleville. The catchment used to be a lot bigger 5 years ago. I'm pleased that I might actually have a choice of schools to send my children to. And hopefully they'll be with a lot of their friends - who aren't all white middle class by the way.
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Virgil Tibbs
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby Virgil Tibbs » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:47 am

I think one of the main questions we would like answering Joan is what would happen if the Year 6 children from all the primary schools that are actually closer to Chestnut Grove attended as well, how many places would that then leave for the kids from Northcote? As someone else posted above, I'm thinking of the likes of Trinity, Holy Ghost, Ravenstone, Alderbrook, Henry Cavendish, St Anselms and Fircroft. Plus what about the large increase in required pupil numbers over the next few years due to population boom - which is really the key point in all this? Many of us who live in Northcote and/or support the free school simply do not get what is so wrong with opening a new school to meet this increase in pupil demand in a part of the borough that at the moment doesn't have a local school? The increase in numbers has to be catered for somehow over the coming years, so why not to serve the 4 local primary schools in this part Wandsworth?
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JoanHolloway
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby JoanHolloway » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:10 pm

@schoolgatemum
Hello!
I believe that I said that parents in Northcote ward don't send their children to CG. Council figures show that there are only 6 children at CG from the Northcote ward. Bear in mind that my son is twelve; I would imagine that the children that started reception at Belleville in 2002, were drawn from a different catchment area than the one that is in place now. There are many more than 6 ex Belleville pupils in year 8 alone, so the previous catchment area must have extended beyond Northcote.
I don't know exactly where you are located, but all I can tell you is that there are children at CG who live in parts of Battersea that are further away from CG than Northcote ie Queenstown Road etc and they got in on distance.
In addition, there are 60 specialist places; 30 language places and 30 art places, which are available to anyone, regardless of distance. My son is a language specialist, which is how he got in even though we live in Putney. There are schools in Wandsworth that Northcote children would not be able to get into on distance.
However, CG is not one of them and there has never been a shred of data or evidence provided to prove otherwise.
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Virgil Tibbs
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby Virgil Tibbs » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:35 pm

And yet Joan you still ignore my questions?!? But putting that to one side and commenting on your last post, it strikes me that by your logic and living in Putney should you not be supporting you own local school over there? I thought your anti-NSC propaganda was that one should always support the local school and so to help it improve where necessary? Clearly the MFL offering was not good enough for you, so you just ignored your local secondary. And can't aptitude testing be considered a form of selection - something again I thought your group was against. There appears to be a lot of double standards on your part, or are you the exception to the rule? Help me out here, you are sending mixed messages.
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JoanHolloway
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby JoanHolloway » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:39 pm

:roll:
Last edited by JoanHolloway on Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Virgil Tibbs
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby Virgil Tibbs » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:21 pm

I am sorry Joan but (whatever your personal circumstances may be) that is just plain hypocricy - you harangue Northcote parents for not attending the so called "local school" and yet you do not apply those same standards to yourself?!? You get to decide not to send your son to ADT or Elliot but we do not get a choice at all - thats basically what you are saying isnt it? Combined with the gross embellishment by JaneE about surplus places, I have no idea why anyone should believe or give credence to a single word any of you say. And you still ignored our questions about the boom in population and how those extra pupil places now need dealing with - and indeed what would happen if the primaries closer to Chestnut Grove actually sent their children to CG? People taking the time to read this thread will make their own minds up of course, but I for one am clear that the basis of your spurious opposition to the new school is a hollow sham.
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juliantenniscoach
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby juliantenniscoach » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:31 pm

"Draw your own conclusions about why the affluent parents in this area are unwilling to support existing schools and are pushing to create their own..."

Laura I think the comment above, apparently on your group's facebook, merits a response don't you? thank you for your reply.
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LauraBrown
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby LauraBrown » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:49 pm

Apologies for not replying sooner - I think the vast majority of people involved in this debate have highly entrenched views that aren't going to be changed by some internet discussion on it but I will add a few points.

My main issue is that the Council (i.e., a relatively independent body) should carry out an assessment of where school places are needed in the Borough rather than respond to a particular group of parents who, understandably, are keen for their children to have the best opportunities.

In response to JulianTennisCoach, I think many of the comments on this thread enable people to draw their own conclusions about the motivations of the affluent parents of Northcote. I understand that not everyone in this area is mega-affluent but it is clearly one of the most affluent parts of Wandsworth and Honeywell and Belleville have % of children receiving free school meals vastly below the Wandsworth average.

Someone asked about Burntwood, a great question - girls who lived up to 3.2 miles away secured places last year so that should make things easy for any Northcote residents interested in gaining places.

Of course not everyone from Northcote could attend CG but it is telling that so few do (at 6, this is 1% of secondary age kids) as it demonstrates the lack of support for local schools. And, there is no doubt that a considerable number could get in if they applied. I presume some children in Northcote may have talents in the specialist subjects so I would not discount those places from being within reach as previous posters have. If local people do not want to support this school, they are welcome to seek alternative options as they do currently, no-one would deny them that choice.

It is a question of priorities. Creating a secondary school in this area will create more choice for the people that live here only - on average, the affluent few in our Borough many of whom already have more choice than many parents in Wandsworth due to their affluence. It will enable the continuing segregation of affluent pupils from Northcote from existing, more mixed local secondary schools in response to a campaign led by affluent parents from this area and NOT on analysis of where we need school places overall. I believe that this should not be a priority - the Council should be focused on ensuring there is high quality provision for every child in Wandsworth (with new schools created where needed to enable this).
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broodje
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby broodje » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:31 pm

Joan, I agree with the previous posts - what you are advocating is very hypocritical when looking at your own circumstances. You have a CHOICE, and you chose a language specialist place at a totally non local school to avoid a special measures school that also doesn't work with your personal circumstances (full time undergraduate, disability, non-car household, single mother).

The people who campaighn for the Academy also want to have a CHOICE. They don't want to HAVE TO send their childern to CG. If they do, they can. But some of them don't. And I also see nothing wrong with the choice for their children to walk 0.5 mile rather than a full mile+. They pay their taxes just like everybody else, and if they can creat a school where they take advantage of those taxes, and which will be oversubscribed (as opposed to CG according to your claims) - it's called supply/demand.

I also find it rather fascinating how you flag your personal circumstances when justifying not attending a local school, but which obviously allow you to get involved in campaigning against a school that has nothing to do with you (given you are in Putney altogether)
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livegreen
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby livegreen » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:55 pm

Chestnut Grove is applying to become an Academy. Together with the proposed Free School at Bolingbroke this should start to improve choice for all parents in this area of Wandsworth.
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Thankyoutories
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby Thankyoutories » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:03 am

I didn't post in the right area earlier. Apologies if I am repeating myself.

This is not about school availability, its about parents from BV and HW not wanting to send their kids to CG. Why? Well...

1) when BV is over subscribed what do we do? We take over a new site miles away from the original school and bus kids in. Not only do we do that, as opposed TO OPEN A NEW SCHOOL, but we have parents on NappyValleyNet back this up and say "its only fair" and this succesful school should be allowed to expand.

2) when CG is oversubscribed what do we do? Do we do exactly the same? Of course not! We build a brand new shiny school AND THEN WE RESTRICT ENTRY TO THE BV AND HW kids.

One problem but two solutions.

One solution for the middle classes and one for the less well off.

Its like Dame Shirley Porter all over again and I cannot believe that the decision makers are not worried about looking so discriminatory.

Seriously, I think this will come back to bite a lot of people.

TYT
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custardy
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby custardy » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:23 am

oh for heaven's sake, if you must bring the Belleville expansion into this ... the second site is not MILES away from Belleville, it is less than 1km away. (But then you think that Chestnut Grove is 500m from the Bolingbroke site...).

There are so many "facts" and counter "facts" and assertions and assumptions flying around on these threads. They're not really helping anyone are they - just stoking up dissent and division within a local community. I'm open to both points of view about the argument re the Bolingbroke Academy and the Save our Schools campaign, but no-one on either side seems able to present the figures or the facts (or the geography!) without skewing them to suit their own agenda.

I've already pointed out on your other thread that limiting access to the Academy on distance would exclude a lot of people who don't live in Northcote. I've pointed out that Belleville isn't in fact populated exclusively by white middle class students. But you've got your own "facts" to push, your own agenda about assuming everyone here is out for themselves, middle class, affluent etc so you don't want to actually engage or respond. That was why I started this thread because I was so angry about the assumptions made by some people about others' motivations and background. Fat lot of good that did other than to prove my initial point.
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Thankyoutories
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby Thankyoutories » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:44 am

Ok - point taken - it is emotive.

Could you please then put downthe arguments for why we need a new school and then do me the courtesy for allowing me to reply?

Thank you

TYT
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broodje
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby broodje » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:59 am

I personally don't even understand why anybody has to justify a need for a new school. If a new school has sufficient demand, it should get the funding. For the government, it should be irrelevant whether to spend 7k (hypothetical figure, I've no idea how much it costs to educate one pupil at secondary level p.a.) at school x vs school y. As long as it breaks even - you can't start schools on every corner with 5 students in it. That's how it works in Holland. Anybody can start a school and will be funded by the government as long as minimum numbers of students are met. Isn't this the idea with Free schools anyway? I can't see the arguement that there are spaces in a different school, hence send kids there instead. For whatever reason, that school doesn't meet criteria set by parents for their children, so there is no demand. When there is no demand for something, you scale this something down that's all. Sell one of the buildings, get rid of excess teachers, etc to scale the thing down to the existing demand. Rather than imposing those excess places on somebody who doesn't want them.
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