Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

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Thankyoutories
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby Thankyoutories » Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:09 am

Okaaaaaaay, so you don't personally understand why anybody should have to justify a new school is an interesting point.

However, please can someone tell me the 2 or 3 or 4 (whatever) reasons why we need this extra school. I am then happy to debate then in an unemotive way, one by one.

Anyone?

TYT
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yummydaddy
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby yummydaddy » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:33 pm

Thankyoutories

You are just really comparing apples with pears. Again, get your facts right and you will understand the difference between Belleville and CG:

Belleville:
1. Belleville is a VERY sought-after school
2. 93% of the kids manage Level 4 or above at Key stage 2
3. Their catchment is around 300m (based on 3 form entry)
4. They have a substantial waiting list of parents who would kill to get into the school
5. Belleville headmaster is a top-notch manager that has teachers and PTA behind him; Parents/teacher/PTA/the council are confident that the headmaster and his strong team can manage a satellite school and keep their high standards
Therefore many parents would be very happy (if they fail to get into Belleville main site) to send their child to a satellite – Belleville

CG:
1. I would not call CG a VERY sought-after school; attractive for some, not attractive for others
2. At Chestnut Grove less than 50% of pupils achieve 5 A-C grades in English and Maths
3. Their catchment is about 2km (depending on ability bands)
4. I personally don’t know anybody who would kill to get their child into CG
5. Margaret Peacock, the headmaster, is having a munity at her hands over converting her school into a academy; teachers on the other hand (back by National Union of Teachers) are against it
Therefore nobody, in his right mind, would think about setting up a CG satellite.
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livegreen
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby livegreen » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:18 pm

TYT

Most of your answers can be found on the Campaign Website http://www.thensc.net and/or http://www.arkbolingbrokeacademy.org

There was a Consultation which was extremely well attended by both those in favour, and obviously from title of this thread, those against.
You can still give feedback on the above websites.

If you are local you will be aware of the massive increase in the birthrate in Wandsworth as a whole and particularly in this area. Its simple really there is both massive demand and need for a state secondary in our community, which will only increase in the next few years.
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Thankyoutories
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby Thankyoutories » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:11 pm

Thank you for the link. I have a question which no-one seems to be able to answer, and its not on your various websites so can I ask it here in the hope of getting an answer...

If a child in the current catchment area for Belleville or Honeywell was to apply for a place at CG would they be likely to get in?

Lets be more specific, say I live half way up Broomwood Road, would get in?

If the answer is no, then I think you have a case. If the answer is yes then I don't understand why you need a new school.

Can anyone please answer that?

Thank you

TYT
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livegreen
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby livegreen » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:37 pm

It varies from year to year but it is safe to say if only 15% of the children leaving High View, Honeywell and Belleville applied to Chestnut Grove they would not all get it.

Children from all the closer primary schools would get in first....ie Ravensone, Henry Cavendish, Alderbrook, Holy Ghost etc etc would have more chance.
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Thankyoutories
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby Thankyoutories » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:43 am

Thank you for the reply.

Are we close to that 15% figure at the moment?

What I mean is do we have a number of these children from HW and BV trying to get in to CG and not getting in?

TYT
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livegreen
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby livegreen » Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:01 pm

You would need to ask individuals from area who applied for a places last year as this is not publically available.
What is clear is that CG is FULL and OVER SUBSCRIBED as serves all the primaries in Balham, as well as specialist Arts places in Wandsworth.

It has not got enough capacity for the children in this neighbourhood - that is clear, especially with the birth boom.
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Thankyoutories
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby Thankyoutories » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:42 pm

Hi
Thank you for the quick reply.

Ok, let me turn it round, do we know of anyone from HW or BV who requested a place at CG and didn't get in?

Thank you

TYT
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MGMidget
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby MGMidget » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:13 pm

If CG is full and gets 777 applicants then clearly there are plenty of people not getting in. Given CG is so oversubscribed and supposedly doesn't have many people attending from Northcote Road area, I can't see why CG parents have a such a problem with the proposed new school. I can sympathise with you taking offense to what some people have said about CG though. However, the over-zealous reaction of some CG parents involved in this anti-school campaign isn't a very good advertisement for the school, so you are not doing the reputation of the school any favours like that.

On why we need a new school:
There have already been several points made on why we need a new school, so it's not the case that noone has answered this but here's some more points to add to this:

I think the point has already been made that there is a rising birth rate and substantially more school places are going to be needed in a few years. The new school is part of forward-planning. CG isn't going to soak up a load of extra applicants if it is already oversubscribed so those applicants have to go somewhere. I think several people on here have expressed interest in seeing the supposedly 'surplus' spaces in various other schools in the borough but so far noone has put them on this forum. So, in the absence of a big surplus of places in existing schools to accommodate a rising school population, a new school providing a substantial number of extra school places seems a good idea. There is a vacant building available suitable for this, such opportunities don't come along often in densely populated areas so it makes sense to consider it seriously.
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Thankyoutories
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby Thankyoutories » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:31 pm

Thank you for the quick reply.

The point I am trying to understand is whether or not the children who attend the feeder schools proposed in the consultation are, right now, having issues getting a local secondary education.

By that I mean could they attend Bollingbroke Academy or wander the 1.2km (I measured it yesterday) to CG.

Its my guess that they are not having difficulties getting a local secondary education.

But I would like to *know*.

So maybe, just maybe, we are now in a situation where we are creating a new school, at a time when the council has had its budget reduced by 20million pounds, and we're going to give priority access to children who don't need it.

Now I might be wrong, and I would love to be wrong, but if that is the case then this is NOT a needs based initiative.

And if it is not a needs based initiative, what is it?

This is a hotly debated topic and for the council and ARK and the NSC to be clear of any accusations of social engineering, and thats a polite word for it, then we need to be absolutely clear about why we are spending tax payers money. I am not saying there isn't a good argument but it needs to be clearly communicated.

At the moment there are lots of referrals to this website and that website but its all a bit woolly.

Do you know when the consultations finish?

I can feel some freedom of information requests coming on...
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livegreen
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby livegreen » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:26 pm

TYT

I am sorry you have difficulty getting your head around this.

You have asked lots of questions and been given lots of straightforward and easy to understand answers, all of which clearly point to the need for a new school.

You can obviously choose to ignore the answers that you do not like and ask the same question in a different way BUT it does not change the situation.

Almost every parent leaving the primary school in this area have great difficulty getting a secondary school suitable for their child, hence the Campaign.
Could I suggest that if you have any other questions you actually take the time to speak to some of the parents of Belleville, High View and Honeywell.
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ready2pop
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby ready2pop » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:51 pm

So where are the Northcote ward children going to secondary school now?

As an interested but impartial reader of this thread (I live in Lambeth outside any of the catchments for any of the schools being discussed) the reason it seems to be going round in circles is that no-one can point to any statistics to back up their argument. Figures have been quoted to show that there are spaces at CG and Burntwood but also to show that CG is oversubscribed. Can't both be right but no-one seems to be able to link to any council data to clear this up.

Just generally, I think that the argument that has been made here (somewhere above) that even if CG has space it wouldn't fulfil Northcote needs because its results aren't good enough is depressing. Are we saying that Northcote children deserve a better education than those in other areas of the borough :?:

If we simply give up on schools that aren't getting top grades and open new ones for children with parents lucky enough to care about education what will happen to those whose parents don't care?
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Thankyoutories
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby Thankyoutories » Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:40 pm

Wow!

Firstly I will ignore you blatantly rude comment about being sorry "that I couldn't get my head around" the issues.

I am happy to be civil about this, I would ask you to do the same.

We are going around in circles but we are for a very good reason.

I am simply asking whether or not the majority of children of BV and HW could get places at CG.

Thats all.

It should be a pretty simple question and I think it is telling that no-one is able to answer it.

If the answer is yes then you don't need a new school.

You have a school and its a kilometer or so away and its called Chestnut Grove.

Wandsworth might need a new school, Lambeth might need a new school, but you (and I mean the families around the roads around the new school site off Bolingbroke Road) do not.

The danger here is that the council is about to spend £20M on a school building when their own overall budget is being cut by the same amount.

As a local tax payer I think I have a right to full due dilligence on such a large capital spend.

The other issue, and why this needs resolving, is that lots of people are asking the same question (see link below) and I honestly think that this could turn into a race/class issue which would be a shame if there is a genuine need.

But its up to you all, the pro-school movement, to demonstrate that there is a genuine need and at the moment you haven't done that.

http://www.efinancialnews.com/story/201 ... lines-home
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schoolgatesmum
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby schoolgatesmum » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:21 pm

I'm not quite sure how that article could turn this into a class/race issue. It seems to me that the people against the school are the ones trying to turn this into a class/race issue.

I will answer your questions regarding CG and students from Belleville and Honeywell. CG offers 150 places in total. Of these, only 90 are based on distance - the rest are for specialist art and languages (available to anyone anywhere). Firstly this doesn't look to me like a school trying to attract as many local kids as possible. Secondly Belleville and Honeywell have about 180 students leaving each year. So if all students from Belleville and Honeywell applied, no they would not get in (even if they got in on a specialist place). And then where would all the children go who would have got into the school? And what about the 60 from High View? And let's not forget that CG is oversubscribed.

I agree that the LEA should be looking at the borough overall but let's face it, they haven't done a brilliant job at ensuring there are enough primary school places and are now playing catch up (see other threads on Belleville and Alderbrook expansions). What's going to happen in a few years when all the extra primary school students need to be turned into secondary school places? Belleville, Honeywell and Highview need 240 alone (270 in a few years). Surely this new school will be helping ease that situation? And isn't Northcote the part of the borough with the highest density of children of school age? It makes complete sense to me that this is the right place for a new secondary school.
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ready2pop
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby ready2pop » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:33 pm

Argh, this is so infuriating. Each side is just reiterating the same things over and over with no evidence one way or the other.

Can anyone point me to the figuresthat confirm whether the existing wandsworth schools are oversubscribed (as pro BA say) or have surplus places (as anti BA say)?

Also can someone please tell me where the Northcote ward children are now going to secondary school? If not at CG or Burntwood are they all being privately educated?
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