Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

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MGMidget
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby MGMidget » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:50 pm

Thankyoutories,

You completely ignored a point made by me and others that there is a rising birth rate. Satisfying demand now does not solve a future and growing problem. So saying that if children haven't had a problem getting into CG historically then there's no need for a new school ignores the future problem. Schools don't get built overnight, they take years to plan. The council has statistics on the rising birthrate - frankly as rather detached party from this I can't be bothered to go routeing around for them but certainly there were some published on the council's website during the Belleville consultation.

The conversation is going round and round because you are ignoring the points being made and I don't think many people can be bothered to waste much time on this.
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schoolgatesmum
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby schoolgatesmum » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:06 pm

If you look at the Wandsworth Secondary Schools brochure it has all the details about how many applications per school. For 2010 entry, Chestnut Grove had 912 applications for 150 places - quite heavily oversubscribed. The 2 other closest schools are Burntwood (girls only) which had 869 applications for 283 places and Ernest Bevin (boys only) which had 508 applications for 180 places.

The schools in the borough which are not oversubscribed are Battersea Park, Elliot and Southfields.

The children from Belleville go to many different secondary schools (I think the total is about 29 different schools). The majority of these are state secondary - Belleville sends out to parents a list of the secondary schools and how many children gained entry for each school. I imagine this is the case for Honeywell and Highview - can anyone confirm this?

There are a few private primary schools in the area and I imagine that most of the children there go on to private secondary schools but I don't see that that's relevant as a feeder school (Belleville, Highview, Honeywell and Wix) admission policy is being proposed.
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ready2pop
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby ready2pop » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:48 pm

Thank you schoolgatesmum. Just couldn't get a grasp on who was right when such contradictory facts were being touted.
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yummydaddy
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby yummydaddy » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:53 am

Thankyoutories ("TYT")

It has already been mentioned various times (but was conveniently ignored by you) that Wandsworth’s birth rate has increased MASSIVELY over the last ten years - this has already started to hit primary schools like a tsunami and Wandsworth council is (rightly so) freaking out.

Here the link with hard statistical data (page 5)
http://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/legacy/new ... sp?id=7144

All these extra 1,150 children (per year) will have to attend secondary school eventually. Can we PLEASE agree on this ?

So WHY THE HELL are you going on and on about whether or not we can squeeze in a few more Belleville and Honeywell kids into 90 distance-based CG school places. ? It DOES NOT BLOODY MATTER !! We are talking about 1,150 kids EVERY YEAR who will hit secondary school in a not too distant future.

TYT, you seem quite sharp and quick on your feet when it comes to exposing a middle-class conspiracy or a "race/class" scandal.
So please, based on your sharp thinking, answer this question: WHERE WILL WE PUT THOSE EXTRA 1,150 CHILDREN ???

If you don't have a satisfactory answer to this question - there is really no point in continuing this threat.
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Thankyoutories
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby Thankyoutories » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:11 am

Thank you for the response.

We are going around in circles but we are going around in circles because no-one has the data to back up your argument.

You quote figures for school places in Wandsworth.

You alude to a problem for school places in Wandsworth.

However the ARK school is not a Wandsworth solution.

It is a school which is pro-actively discriminating in favour of BV and HW children.

These children will have priority over other Wandsworth school children.

So I feel that quoting Wandsworth stats is irrelevant, this is not a Wandsworth solution.

It is a Northcote Road solution.

If tax payers money is going to be used on a selective basis then I would like some robust stats to back this up.

If I have time this weekend I will work out the average house price for the catchment areas of BV and HW.

I suspect that the answer will make this a class/race issue.

TYT
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dandelion53
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby dandelion53 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:10 am

What? Now, this is becoming surreal!

What do you mean this is not a Wandsworth solution?

Is this school in Wandsworth? Yes, so what exactly do you mean? That state education should not exist in areas with housing over a certain value?

There are plenty of state schools near high - value housing, should they be striped of their state funding just in case some affluent children go to school there?

The house prices near Chestnut Grove are not to be sniffed at! Housing in the vicinity is completely out of the reach of most people.

So, if you attend Belleville or Honeywell, you are not a wandsworth resident? What about the pupils at High View and Wix? Do they count as Wandsworth residents? And what about the children at Belleville and Honeywell who are on free school meals? There are less of them than at other primary schools but they are still there! 27% of pupils at Honeywell (I think), much lower than the national average but still Wandsworth children who deserve a state secondary place.

I have been following this discussion, and have been weighing up both sides as I wasn't sure at first who I agreed with most, but it is now clear that this is just inverted snobbery!

Which data exactly is it that you are after? Maybe you should be more specific because I have read answers that provide figures - but apparently you don't want 'Wandsworth' data? Why ever not? This is going to be in Wandsworth and funded with Wandsworth money.

Feeder schools is not some new pro-active descrimination tool that ARK have invented. The borough of Richmond uses this system to distribute places at its state secondaries. It may or may not be the best way to do this in this case, but then that is the point you should be making to Wandsworth.

I have not heard any proposals of where a new secondary school should be placed if Northcote ward isn't deserving. Wandsworth will need more secondary school places in the future, there isn't one there and there IS an available building. Available buildings of this size do not come around very often AT ALL! My children do not live in Northcote ward but that doesn't mean I'm going to object to a new school in the borough because I have a chip on my shoulder about there being rich people in that area! State education is either for everyone or just for poor people??!

I also think that many of the very affluent families whose children attend Honeywell and Belleville, the ones with the biggest, most expensive houses, the ones that clearly make the objectors to this school very cross, will not stop sending their children to private secondary schools! This will leave it as a local secondary school for all the other children at these 2 schools and the pupils from Highview and Wix.
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dandelion53
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby dandelion53 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:22 am

Oops! Apologies - my figure for children on free school meals at Honeywell is waaaay out! Sorry! But I stand by everything else I wrote, regardless.
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doleofficedad
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby doleofficedad » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:44 am

As a neutral I have been watching this thread on and off from the sidelines. But having just read TYTs last post she (he?) has motivated me to register on this site. When as far as I can see the supporters of the school have provided data from council websites and so on - to then reply quoting property prices as the latest basis for her objection invites ridicule. It is also petty and vindictive. As I see it - from all of the above posts - the new school is about managing future pent up demand for state secondary places in Wandsworth. Why is forward planning not reasonable? In hindsight one would hope she would be a little ashamed at what she has written - but from reading the tone of her posts I doubt she will be. She seems only intent on turning a debate about educating Wandsworth children into something that it is not. Poor show.
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yummydaddy
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby yummydaddy » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:38 am

Thankyoutories,

I had asked you a simple question:

WHERE WILL WE PUT THOSE EXTRA 1,150 CHILDREN (a year !) ???

If your answer to this massive challenge for Wandsworth council is to start calculating house prices, then you are clearly deluded.
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schoolgatesmum
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby schoolgatesmum » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:48 am

I'd also like to add that Southfields and Burntwood have just secured £70 million funding for updating their buildings. I think it's fantastic that these schools will be able to bring their buildings up-to-date. Southfields is not really an option for me distance-wise and Burntwood is girls only so I won't be able to send my son there! Is this pro-actively discriminating in favour of girls? Or people who live near Southfields? Taxpayers' money is always used on a selective basis - it's a finite amount of money so decisions have to be made. From the figures quoted, Wandsworth children will be getting a new school (750 children plus sixth form) for about £30 million (not sure what costs are but I think that's about right). That seems like a pretty good deal to me. And it's not just Belleville and Honeywell - it's Highview and Wix. Anyone can apply to the school - the feeder school prioritisation is only if the school is oversubscribed. And if it is oversubsribed surely that is a sign that it is really needed?
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yummydaddy
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby yummydaddy » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:58 am

This will be a busy weekend for Thankyoutories.
Has to now calculate house prices around those other two schools as well.
:D
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ready2pop
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby ready2pop » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:10 pm

I agree with DoleOfficeDad - the anti-Belleville Academy people are jsut making themselves look silly with all this classs/race stuff.

The article that TYT linked to earlier was outrageous - it actually listed the names of every parent supporting the school who worked in banking. Why on earth that is relevant to the worthiness of the project I have no idea and what on earth is publishing names supposed to achieve?

This mudslinging undermines any valid arguments being put forward and is just divisive.
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schoolgatesmum
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby schoolgatesmum » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:23 pm

It's going to be quite hard to calculate the whole of the Peabody estate....
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yummydaddy
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby yummydaddy » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:38 pm

That’s right, the article, just read it. There is two words for this: "selective attention" (a disease that Thankyoutories seems to be infected with)

25 out of 2,500 supporters are bankers. If I calculate correctly, this is a mindblowing 1%.

I really think there is more than 1% of the 2,500 who are supporting the school because they struggle to make ends meet and can genuinely not pay for private education.

I’m a Belleville parent and within my children’s school year there is a good 70-80% who could simply not afford to go private.
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Happymama
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Re: Anyone else get harangued outside Northcote Library today?!

Postby Happymama » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:35 pm

Having no particularly strong opinion on this matter, I too have been following this thread with interest. I too was stopped by this group a few Saturdays ago. I found them aggressive and when I asked specific questions on statistics I found that they had very vague answers that they used purely for their own argument. It seemed to me that they were making this into more of a "class" issue than an issue of whether a school was indeed needed. I have subsequently visited their Facebook website and the use of terms such as the "yummies" to describe the local parents reinforced this for me.

As for the Thank you Tories comments - I am speechless. I am not sure what the average value of the Northcote road houses have to do with the issue. The reality is that the more affluent families in the area - those that TYT and this group seem to be SO against - will continue to send their kids to private secondary schools anyway....

Clearly the birth rate in the area has increased with Belleville having an extra reception this year. And all the numbers seem to point out that Chestnut Grove is hugely oversubscribed therefore it seems to me that this group is not against a new secondary school but only a new secondary school in what seems to be an affluent area.

As for the assumption that all kids that attend Belleville and Honeywell are middle class white kids .... TYT please go and have a look at the school gates one afternoon. Belleville is an amazing and great school with children from different countries and from different cultures.

But I do have to thank TYT and this group - you have now managed to clearly make my mind up as to what you are really against and I do find it very sad.
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